The LNER Encyclopedia

Hi,

This is my first question on this forum, have been a participant for a while.

I have just purchased a DJH LNER U1 Garratt kit which is partly built.

My question is how was it lined (red) in LNER days? I have seen models with no lining, some with just lining on the boiler bands and some with lining on the Boiler bands, below the footplate, on the steps and around the tanks.

Can any one help me?

Mark

I believe that at its first full works visit after 1928 any repainting would have been into the then standard unlined goods black livery. Prior to that date a good study of accurately dated photos may be required to spot variations between "as delivered" condition (works grey?) and any subsequent "exhibition finish" as distinct from normal in-service pre-1929 lined black goods livery.
The relvant volume Yeadon's book or the RCTS series should help.

Pictures of 2395 at Darlington for the 1925 Centenary event seem to show it unlined. I suspect that once it entered service the loco was usually too dirty for any lining to show anyway. Given it's isolated existence on Worsborough incline away from public gaze I doubt if it attracted much in the way of a cleaning rag.

Chaz

Yeadon vol 9 states, and confirms with photos, that 2395 appeared at the Darlington Centenary procession and static exhibition in works grey, albeit a dark shade judging by the pictures. After proper running trials Mr Y states that Doncaster applied black livery, lined single red. I can see no further comment about the livery, and the pictures of her in black are all in the unhelpfully non-red/black-discriminating photo emulsions of that era. But I see that there were SIX visits to works from late 1928 to 1934, five classed as heavy or general repairs and one extra visit for a new firebox not described as either a heavy or a general repair, so I presume some new paint would have been needed somewhere along the line As stated above red lining on goods locos officially finished in '28 or '29 so any repainting should have been plain black.

Thanks guys for your help.

I will paint it plain black. It will still look impressive on the layout pulling PO wagons.

I have seen on the Pathe film website footage of the U1 Garratt in shops grey.
worth a look.

regards
Mark

Sorry to jump in late (problems with internet connection here), but does this help?
Shows black with red lining quite clearly.

Malcolm

Didn’t the U1 end up at Bromsgrove for banking up the Lickey Incline?
I heard that it was sabotaged – presumably by train crew fearful of the loss of a job. (one engine instead of two).

Yep, It couldn't be used on the MSW after electrification.
It is true that crews didn't like it and would fail it when they could, and there were 'trick' that were use to bring about a failure. The problem was that the firebox was bigger than could comfortably be fired by one man. At 56 sq ft grate it was more than double the size of the O4s grates (26 sq ft) which were the alternative. So firing the U1 was seen as doing two men's jobs.

Thanks Malcolm for the photo. I still will leave it plain black at this stage and once I live with it for a while, i may still line it. But I need to ask, if it fits my time period? That may just determine how far I go.

Not that I am a rivet counter.
Mark

I could be wrong, but as the Garratt is absolutely pristine in the above photo I would assume that is the official Doncaster photo showing her as first turned out after trials and repainting from Beyer-Peacock works grey into lined black, as mentioned in Yeadon. Any repaints after 1928/29 should still have been plain black if the official painting policy was adhered to.

Hi,

Now that the lining issue is sorted, and thanks to every one for their input.

I now have the issue of motorising the kit. I have the original Anchoridge motor but no worm or gear for the axle. I contacted DJH and they suggested the Mashima & GB1 gearbox which is a nice unit, but this would mean cutting a large chunk of metal out of the rear coal bunker/tank and the motor would show in the gap.

I have just contacted Markits to see if the romford gears and worm are still available. I have checked their website but as I am new to this kit building of Locos, I am not familiar with what I would need.

Can anyone shed any light on this for me?

Mark

Just a suggestion, having looked at your picture of your partially built model. Could you drive the axle closest to the boiler unit, enabling you to hide the motor in either the cab or the smokebox?

I'd never noticed that snag before, and I agree that you have a problem there. I'm glad for that reason that I've never tried to build the Worsborough banker!

Thinking aloud, if you don't want motor or gears/gearboxes to block the view under the tanks then possibilities that occur to me are:

1. Can you use a tall multi stage gearbox in both units, fitting this in the "piilar" at the inboard end of each tank, driving onto the second coupled axle in one unit and the third in the other, then fit a flat-can motor (with its flat faces top and bottom) in the tank/bunker spaces? The gearboxes will add appreciably to cost though.

2. Using basic Romford open gears and simple (home made or purchased) end brackets for the motors, is there room to install a short can motor almost upright in each unit, again hidden or largely hidden in one of the tank pillars?

3. If you can get or make universal joints, or if you are happy to use something like neoprene tube or springy wire as a flexible drive shaft, can you put gears/gearboxes on each unit's inner-end axle and link these to a suitably burly single motor mounted as low as possible in the firebox?

I know these are only general ideas rather than tried and tested solutions with a recommendation of specific manufacturers' parts, but I hope they are of some help.

I have looked at the Markits website and contacted Mark at Markits, or he was the one who replied to my questions.

From this I ascertained which worm and gears I need. So I will order these and a few other items I need to finish a B2 4-6-0 (Sir Sam Fay-wife's name is Faye) and a couple of tools for wheels.

Thanks for all the help and suggestions and I will put the progress on here so you can see what I learn from it all.

thanks

Mark