Iron Ore to Consett (pre BR).

[drmditch]

I've been meaning to ask about this topic for a while.

Does anybody know what wagons were used for the Consett iron ore traffic prior to the MOT strengthened versions of the 21 ton steel hoppers?

I have seen references in a couple of books (including G O'Hagan's 'The Conside Trilogy) to wooden wagons, including 16 and 20 ton hoppers, being used. I would have thought that smaller NER hopper designs might have worked better for the heavy ores.

There seem to be several pictures of the NER steel hoppers being used for the Cleveland traffic, but what about the heamatite ores from the west, and the imported materials (the Consett company owned interests in Spanish ore from 1873) through Tyne Dock and the Wear?

Despite the large number of pictures of the later BR 56 ton wagons, there seems to a paucity of interest in the previous hundred years of hauling iron ore up to the top of a hill!

[Greedy Boards]

Hi

in answer to your question, many of the larger North Eastern and Cumbrian iron & steel companies had their own wagon fleets. As you quite rightly indicate, steel bodied hoppers were much preferred for iron ore, and Bill Hudson provides two good examples, with a Bell Brothers 15 ton steel hopper from 1911 (Volume Two); and a Millom Iron Works 20 ton steel hopper from 1937 (Volume Four). Interestingly, the Bell Brothers hopper indicates that some of their iron ore traffic may have come from Glendon and Rushton in Northamptonshire, via Normanton exchange sidings, to their blast furnaces at Port Clarence on the north bank of the Tees.

The Consett Iron Company also had its own wagon fleet, and Bill Hudson (Volume Four) provides an image of a 12 ton coal hopper dating from 1907. Unfortunately, I don't have a reference for one of their steel hoppers, but the coal hopper image bears reference to Charles Roberts as the supplier, and the same works also produced the steel hoppers for Millom Iron Works in 1937, so it would be conceivable that the works would market their ability to produce steel hoppers to as many potential clients as possible, including the Consett Iron Company.

For your info, Bachmann have previously produced a 24 to steel hopper for the South Durham Iron & Steel Company, and Dapol with both a Bell Brothers, and a Dorman Long steel hopper in OO gauge. I await DJModels Q6 0-8-0 with keen interest, but you could also use this locomotive on the Tyne Dock to Consett run in both pre & post-Grouping days, as they were introduced in 1913, six years before the first Raven Q7 0-8-0 appeared on the route, and outlasted the Thompson O1 2-8-0s, if not the 9F BR Standards at the end of steam.

Regards

Greedy Boards

[drmditch]

Thank you. I had not thought of company owned wagons, although I think I have seen some pictures of CIC owned vehicles being used for coal. I do have one of the Bachmann wagons you mention, and several more in plain black that I was hoping to letter to match it. I will look through my library some more.

My Q6 ... (see here)... was indeed a Consett shedded loco in 1947. My Q7 (see earlier in my thread) is also appropriate. (I haven't got access to my copies of Yeadon or RCTS histories just at the moment, and can't remember whether 3466 was at Tyne Dock, or whether it was one of the those which were briefly transferred elsewhere.) I also have a Hornby O1 awaiting weathering, although I don't understand why the manufacturers have used gold shaded transfers. In Yeadon it looks like unshaded Gill Sans.

I think by 1947 the Ministry strengthened versions of the 21 ton steel hoppers were in use, at least for the Tyne Dock traffic.

I must plan a trip to the Ken Hoole study centre in the not to distant future.

[earlswood nob]

Good morning all

I knew the Yeadons would be useful. I happen to have vol 23 out at the moment as I'm looking at things to do with my Q6.
The Q7 no. 3466 was at Tyne Dock 1943 till 1956, Sunderland 1956 till 1959, then back to Tyne Dock.

Earlswood nob

[drmditch]

Good morning all

I knew the Yeadons would be useful. I happen to have vol 23 out at the moment as I'm looking at things to do with my Q6.
The Q7 no. 3466 was at Tyne Dock 1943 till 1956, Sunderland 1956 till 1959, then back to Tyne Dock.

Earlswood nob

Thank you. I've found my copy now. This moving house is very disruptive! The reason I selected 3466 was that although LNER built it was one of the last to retain NER pattern buffers.

[earlswood nob]

G'day all

You have my sympathy, I have only moved twice, the last time 13 years ago, and it's such an upheaval. It may be that I collect so much junk that I don't want to throw away, and if I do, I want it soon afterwards.
I like the round base buffers as it adds a little individuality to the locos. The GNR used a similar buffer, and one can spot the pre-grouping locos.
Enjoy your unpacking

Earlswood nob

[billdonald]

The primary reason steel replaced wooden-bodied wagons on the iron ore traffic was the loss of iron ore material through the joints in the body. Iron ore is one of those substances that flows very easily through any cracks, especially helped by the jolting movements inherent in a freight train. Although the NER wooden hopper wagons of all capacities were renowned for their rugged durability and strength, and were well capable of handling this traffic, "cargo leakage" was unacceptable.

Bill Donald
Dublin, Ireland.

[drmditch]

The primary reason steel replaced wooden-bodied wagons on the iron ore traffic was the loss of iron ore material through the joints in the body. Iron ore is one of those substances that flows very easily through any cracks, especially helped by the jolting movements inherent in a freight train. Although the NER wooden hopper wagons of all capacities were renowned for their rugged durability and strength, and were well capable of handling this traffic, "cargo leakage" was unacceptable.

Bill Donald
Dublin, Ireland.

Many thanks. I'll keep looking for further material.

[Greedy Boards]

Hi

in addition to the private owner wagons, have looked to Peter Tatlow's LNER Wagons Volume Two, LNER North Eastern Area. The section on NER ironstone hoppers refers to a 30 ton ironstone hopper (NER Diagram S3/S/LNER Code 9095) being produced by Shildon in 1905, with 256 in operation in 1922, reducing to 219 in 1939, and only 30 being available in 1947. The same section highlights a 20 ton ironstone hopper (NER Diagram S4/S/LNER Code 9130) being produced from 1909, with 482 in operation in 1922; 477 in 1939; and 343 in 1947. The smaller ironstone hoppers suited the tighter curves experienced in the mines of the Cleveland Ironstone District, so maybe the 30 ton hoppers were more suitable on the Tyne Dock - Consett run/

Looking at Tomlinson's history of the North Eastern Railway, receipts for the average mineral train load indicate an increase from 92.49 tons in 1900, to 182.85 tons in 1912, which would demonstrate the increased haulage capacity created by the introduction of more powerful locomotives and larger mineral wagons.

Regards

Greedy Boards

[drmditch]

Yes, Mr Tatlow's works are favourite bedtime (and any time) reading! However, as I asked in my initial post on this thread, has anyone seen any pictures of NER steel wagons in use for Consett traffic?

Mr O'Hagan's book mentioned above does make mention of wooden hoppers, but offers nothing but a statement that they were used.

[Greedy Boards]

Hi

had a look through all of my North Eastern literature, and I can't find a photo of steel hoppers being used on the Tyne Dock - Consett run at the time of asking. However, Yeadon's Register Volume 23 has a good photograph of a Worsdell T1 0-8-0 (Q5) No 162 hauling a rake of some twenty-five 40 ton steel bodied coal hoppers. Admittedly, No 162 was based at Haverton Hill between 1903 - 1943, so the image would be from South or West Durham, rather than the Consett area.

In regards to locomotive stock based at Tyne Dock, Ken Hoole identifies that Tyne Dock had twenty-eight T2 0-8-0s (Q6) in 1920, with a further fifty-four at Gateshead, Borough Gardens, and Blaydon. Raven's T3 0-8-0 (Q7) Class of 15 was not concentrated at Tyne Dock until 1943 onwards, and so the Q6 Class would have been the unsung labourer on the route prior to that date. On average, a Q6 could haul two and a half times the load of a J26 or J27 0-6-0, and these mineral 0-6-0s were also considerably fewer in number at Tyne Dock, compared to their 0-8-0 counterparts employed alongside.

My previous reference to Tomlinson's average train weights, was to highlight that the average haulage load had effectively doubled between 1900 and 1912. Given that the length of passing loops determined that train lengths could not be increased by that time, then the doubling of the load could only be achieved by wagons that had double the capacity on average. If wagons used in 1900 were only of either 8 or 10 ton capacity, then you would be looking at a significant amount of wagons that were at least 30 tons in capacity, to achieve the overall doubling effect. These larger wagons would then require the use of NER 0-8-0s to haul them up the steep gradients towards the Works.

I guess that your best course open for an image of pre-BR wagons between Tyne Dock and Consett, would be to approach the Ken Hoole Study Centre, and/or the NERA Archives at North Road/Head of Steam in Darlington. However, the presence of such a number of the Q6 Class at Tyne Dock as early as 1920, would seem to suggest that they were hauling some seriously large wagons up the hill to the Consett blast furnaces, before the advent of the 21 ton steel hoppers in the LNER era.

Regards

Greedy Boards

[Greedy Boards]

By way of an addendum, have just been looking through a copy of On North Eastern Lines by Derek Huntriss, which has a number of excellent colour photos of locomotives on the Tyne Dock/Consett run.

The first is of a Q6 0-8-0 hauling a rake of steel coal wagons in September 1966, mainly 21 ton hoppers from Stella Gill sidings at Pelaw Junction, en route for Consett. The second is a Thompson O1 2-8-0 as a train engine with a rake of iron ore wagons in 1954, banked by a Q7 0-8-0 at the rear, which occurred fourteen times per day. The Q7 0-8-0s were concentrated at Tyne Dock in 1943, and the Thompson 01 2-8-0s arrived in 1953. When a O1 2-8-0 was not available, then the Q7 0-8-0s worked as both train and banking engine. Shift crews worked an eight hour shift, during which they prepared their engines, made the 111 minute round trip to Consett and back, and disposed their engines before signing off from their shift.

The next couple of photos show 9F 2-10-0s that started to arrive at Tyne Dock in 1955, when Thompson O1 2-8-0s were relegated to banking duties on the run. The 9F 2-10-0s lasted on the run until late 1966, with the Raven Q6 0-8-0s and Thompson O1 2-8-0s having already been condemned by the end of 1962.

It is of particular note though that Raven's Q6 Class 0-8-0 would remain in operation in the North East until September 1967, outlasting their LNER and BR counterparts, with one preserved and still chuffing away in North Yorkshire.

Regards

Greedy Boards

[Beamish]

The Huntriss book 'On North Eastern Lines' is indeed an excellent collection and I recall writing to him ( in Devon I think it was!) to congratulate him on the quality of the photographs. The pre-9F ore train pics were especially interesting. Page 40 of the book shows 63755 making rather easy work of the 1 in 56 past Chophill Colliery, Beamish ( the ore hoppers look less than full!) but the burnt and scarred hillside reminds me that the advent of the 9Fs did at least seem to result in far fewer fires, however hard they worked. Note too the skirts on the then-new wagons, preventing iron ore dust making its way into the moving parts. These items were later removed. Don't recall why.