Restaurant Cars - electric charging point question

[williewhizz]

Hello, I wonder if anyone can help with this please - I'm looking for information/drawings/photographs of what the 'charging points' provided by the LNER to recharge the cooking ranges of its restaurant cars at the end of each trip looked like, and how they were operated.

It seems too difficult (or maybe just too hard to define) a question for the Internet in general, but even the usual railway modelling websites don't seem to have anything. Grateful for any assistance, please.

WW

[Dave]

I have looked through my drawings and found 2 Doncaster C&W drawings that may help you.
5922N Electric cooking on restaurant car 1928 (D10C)
7508N Diagram shewing position of charging sockets on restaurant cars 1930
Attached are parts of these 2 drawings.

[65447]

It's a very interesting question and one about which there is little available information.

The off-board power supply was not so much for recharging batteries but for powering the cooking ranges so that for example roasts could be cooking for the requisite time in advance such that they were ready for serving shortly after departure.

To this end the carriage sidings used to hold the ECS and the platforms which such services used were fitted with the charging points to provide sufficient coverage on the routes over which electric cooking was used. Harris' LNER Carriages 1994 edition lists the locations and dates of installation on p79 and notes that the provision of electric catering in carriages was conditional on the 'concomitant' installations of the necessary charging points.

The drawings provided by Dave clearly show the type of connector and hence the cable type used; a similar connector would be required at the 'dock' end. It is also clear that there were not any transformers on board so there must have been step-down transformer/rectifiers to provide the appropriate DC voltage, but whether these were part of the 'dock' is not known.

Given the position of the on-board connector it may be assumed that the 'docks' were mounted on the walling below the platforms or on posts in the carriage sidings. It may be possible to discern these in photographs of such locations, using the list in Harris.

It's also fairly certain that drawings will exist which may well be in the NRM's archives.

[Dave]

I've no info on what the static connections where like.
From looking at both drawings, drawing 5922N shows 4 AC socket points and 2 DC socket points for the battery cells.
These are indicated on 7508N as black (solid) AC points, open line DC socket points.
So different types of supply (and voltage?) needed for one restaurant car.

Triplet Restaurant car set has 2 AC sockets per car (1 either side) + 2 DC sockets under the centre car (1 either side), with
a note saying 103ft to extreme centres of AC boxes.

Quintuple Restaurant car set has 2 AC and 2 DC to centre car and 2 AC sockets in both adjacent cars, again as above 1 either side,
end 2 cars have no sockets. Dimension of 116ft to extreme centres of AC boxes.

It may be possible to work out where these static points may have been located by the location of the cars in the make-up of the train.

[65447]

Dave, you have the benefit of the complete drawing - the text on the 'circuit diagram' 7508N only mentions DC.

[StevieG]

" .... Given the position of the on-board connector it may be assumed that the 'docks' were mounted on the walling below the platforms or on posts in the carriage sidings. .... "

.... or perhaps (like some water standpipes for 'tanking' passenger stock) on posts in the 'six-foot' between platform lines ?

[65447]

" .... Given the position of the on-board connector it may be assumed that the 'docks' were mounted on the walling below the platforms or on posts in the carriage sidings. .... "

.... or perhaps (like some water standpipes for 'tanking' passenger stock) on posts in the 'six-foot' between platform lines ?

Yes, could be...

I wonder if the connecting cables were stored on board? It would be logical if they were, but there again the Catering Cars were always packed tight with equipment and they could not sensibly be stored near the food areas.

[williewhizz]

Yes, thanks for the responses so far - just to remove any ambiguity, it's the 'fixed equipment' I'm particularly concerned with, i.e. whatever was on the platform, in the carriage shed, by the siding trackside etc., rather than the connection on the carriages themselves. (Though that is interesting too). I'm glad it's not just me who is unclear!

[65447]

" .... Given the position of the on-board connector it may be assumed that the 'docks' were mounted on the walling below the platforms or on posts in the carriage sidings. .... "

.... or perhaps (like some water standpipes for 'tanking' passenger stock) on posts in the 'six-foot' between platform lines ?

I've been looking through photographs of KX taken during the 1950s/60s and the water standpipes in the six-foot show up well. However the charging connections would have been removed long before - might anyone recommend a decent selection of photographs taken during the second half of the 1920s or the 1930s that could be examined? Most of my material is GE-based and LV would probably only have had the equipment to serve platforms 9 & 10.

[2512silverfox]

It may also be that during the period in question, the main supply was DC. Many mains were converted from DC to AC during the late 20s and early 30s; my father was an electrical engineer in London and that was his main occupation during the period.