2002's 4mm projects - Pacifics +

[Mercator II]

another loco looking good

never seen a partial removal before, I like

Thanks for the updates

Brian

[2002EarlMarischal]

Thanks Brian! I rather like the effect leaving the skirting in front of the cylinders too!

According to the "apple green bible" part 2A, the skirting only lasted in this form between June 1941 and October 1942, and I believe it was the only A4 to receive this treatment.

Here she (can I say that for an engine called William? ) is with corridor tender ex-Kingfisher:

Now, with a chorus of "will he never learn" (especially from Mick b ), here is the start of my attempt at an apple green A4 retaining the curved lining.

After my last attempt that ended in tears, (until Mick b agreed to rescue me), I have decided to be ultra cautious. The masking took a long time but I have put Maskol to use along the parabolic curve so the apparently erratic masking at the smokebox end is (hopefully) misleading.

After the second coat of gorgeous apple green, I will brush paint the valences, (not risking the problem I had before), and will attempt to remove the red line hiding under the tape, leaving the white one in place, and repainting the entire smokebox to finish off. Sounds almost easy! Of course then it's only the lining out! Wish the mad fool luck!

By the way, I do like locos other than A4's - it's just that I'm trying to achieve every major livery permutation (Hornby version only).

[mick b]

Jim
I now see, what maybe one or two of your problems you had with Kingfisher.

No idea, what tape you are using ? I suggest you try Tamiya version in the future. Expensive but gives 1st class results.
You are painting it the other way round from me too. I tape the green area which was still in primer, which I hope you have done first? . The Black area is done with Halfords satin black aerosol. , then tape that and do the Green, as in recent pictures I have posted of your A3 and A4 and my A2/3.
The reason I do the Halford first is because enamels dont like overpainting with other paint types on top, whereas Halfords is normally more forgiving to overpainting with other paint types.

Good luck

[2002EarlMarischal]

Jim
I now see, what maybe one or two of your problems you had with Kingfisher.

No idea, what tape you are using ? I suggest you try Tamiya version in the future. Expensive but gives 1st class results.
You are painting it the other way round from me too. I tape the green area which was still in primer, which I hope you have done first? . The Black area is done with Halfords satin black aerosol. , then tape that and do the Green, as in recent pictures I have posted of your A3 and A4 and my A2/3.
The reason I do the Halford first is because enamels dont like overpainting with other paint types on top, whereas Halfords is normally more forgiving to overpainting with other paint types.

Good luck

Mick, I think you have "hit the nail on the head". Great detective work!

I was baffled and highly frustrated by what I had done wrong before, because I had taken my time to mask thoroughly and been patient between coats. Now it seems clear.

I did use the narrow Tamiya tape I have for the edges of paintwork with traditional masking tape for the larger areas - the same on the latest attempt although this time I've also used Maskol to preserve the inner white parabolic curve. I will treat myself to some wider Tamiya tape too.

I confess I didn't prime the green area as I found last time that I achieved a really good finish straight over the garter blue, and I've taken on board other's comments regarding keeping paint thickness to a minimum to preserve detail. I was also worried about putting Precision green over Halfords primer but I totally understand your point regarding the relationship between those paints and I will prime in future.

I also see that doing the black first would be the better strategy, but this time I was trying to keep the white curve.

Clearly it's too late to spray the black this time, but I'm hoping that if I thin the Humbrol satin black, (which is always very thick in the tin), and use a really good new brush, I can achieve a decent finish over the garter blue valences and the smokebox.

I still need to remove the outer red curve so it does not grin through the black paint on the smokebox and it will require a steady hand to paint up to the white curve if I have successfully saved it.

You can be sure I will follow your guidance on future projects - thanks again!

[mick b]

I was surprised that you had so much "bleed" on Kingfisher , hence I thought you had used "cheaper" tape for all of the masking. You must ensure that the edge of the tape is firmly rubbed down onto the body. I use "norma"l tape for the large areas, its the edge thats the important part of masking.
Always spray away from the edge when possible too, this helps to prevent paint build up as well.
Maskol is good but can sometimes leave a "ledge" when removed, this can be levelled when hard with a sharp blade or gentle use of fine wet and dry.
Varnish can hide a lot

[2002EarlMarischal]

More useful tips - thanks Mick!

I gave "Golden Eagle maybe" another coat of green this morning and on arrival home this evening peeled off the masking tape and did a little bit of tidying.

This is how she looks at present. I feel that I have fairly successfully saved the white parabolic curve as intended. Where some green had crept over the white line I used a pointed cotton bud with a little T-cut to clean the green off and return to the white line.

I see some green got through to the inside of one of the cab windows and there's a little green that got further onto the running plate than it should have, but overall I'm quite pleased.

The next test is to see if I can actually get a decent brush finish on the black bits. Fingers crossed!

[manna]

G'Day Gents

Interesting color scheme !! and coming on

Re 'William Whitelaw' ( the only A4 I never underlined in my ABC) would this loco still be in Blue in the 1941-42 timeframe ?

Now, here's the 'kicker' Great Snipe, wasn't renamed William Whitelaw until July 1941, the valances were partially cut away in June 1941, so you have a one month window to have this loco as is but with the name 'Great Snipe'

manna

[2002EarlMarischal]

G'Day Gents

Interesting color scheme !! and coming on

manna

I've decided to call the loco "Joseph and his amazing technicolour dreamcoat". The nameplate will run the full length of the boiler!

Re 'William Whitelaw' ( the only A4 I never underlined in my ABC) would this loco still be in Blue in the 1941-42 timeframe ?

manna

I checked the "green bible" Part 2A before I started William Whitelaw - please see Fig 144 - no doubt about it being in blue still (June 1941 to October 1942)!

[2002EarlMarischal]

Now, here's the 'kicker' Great Snipe, wasn't renamed William Whitelaw until July 1941, the valances were partially cut away in June 1941, so you have a one month window to have this loco as is but with the name 'Great Snipe'

manna

Hi manna! According to RCTS 2A "in June 1941 the skirting was removed from both behind and in front of the cylinders on No. 4462 giving easy access to all the motion parts, but before the engine was returned to traffic in July a modified form of skirting was put back ahead of the cylinders, hinged and secured by six studs.........and finally in October 1942 No. 4462 had its hinged skirting removed...".

So it doesn't sound as though 4462 left the works as Great Snipe after the valances were cut away.

Great delving into the history of these locos isn't it.

[kimballthurlow]

Hi EarlMarischal,

I really like your work on the various A4s.
Give it time. When completed, the project becomes a highlight of your model presentations.

Golden Eagle looks a treat.

regards
Kimball

[S.A.C. Martin]

Hi manna! According to RCTS 2A "in June 1941 the skirting was removed from both behind and in front of the cylinders on No. 4462 giving easy access to all the motion parts, but before the engine was returned to traffic in July a modified form of skirting was put back ahead of the cylinders, hinged and secured by six studs.........and finally in October 1942 No. 4462 had its hinged skirting removed...".

So it doesn't sound as though 4462 left the works as Great Snipe after the valances were cut away.

Just to add (as I'm not sure if all versions of RCTS 2A are the same), to further your argument, on page 107 of my edition, there is a photograph of William Whitelaw with the unique valance arrangement, outside Doncaster Works, and is dated June 1941. It is in full garter blue with the shaded numbering/lettering.

Great delving into the history of these locos isn't it.

Absolutely fascinating had a nice afternoon looking through my new copy of the very volume you mention. So many livery combinations on the A4s I hadn't realized were possible.

[giner]

I was surprised that you had so much "bleed" on Kingfisher , hence I thought you had used "cheaper" tape for all of the masking. You must ensure that the edge of the tape is firmly rubbed down onto the body. I use "norma"l tape for the large areas, its the edge thats the important part of masking.
Always spray away from the edge when possible too, this helps to prevent paint build up as well.
Maskol is good but can sometimes leave a "ledge" when removed, this can be levelled when hard with a sharp blade or gentle use of fine wet and dry.
Varnish can hide a lot

I don't know if you have this product, or a similar one, in the UK. I haven't used it on a model, but around the house, it does what it says on the packaging. http://www.frogtape.com/

Might be worth a shot if you can find some over there. It's about 50% more expensive than regular painters tape, but it's good stuff.

[2002EarlMarischal]

Thanks for the encouragment and suggestions gents!

This morning I brush painted the valences and smokebox with Humbrol SM302 satin black, eliminating the red line in the process. I have a little touching up to do as the photos show, but generally I'm pleased with the progress so far.

It would have been a lot less trouble if Hornby actually produced all these variants instead of concentrating predominantly on BR green!!

[Blink Bonny]

Hmm.

Ideas forming.

Mrs BB: Forget 'em!

[2002EarlMarischal]

Share them with us BB - we won't tell the missus!!