BACHMANN ANNOUNCE O4

[IAK]

In this day and age why though?
If we can hide the motor and gearbox in our kit builds then it seems daft that Bachmann want to do something like this?

[45609]

Also does anyone know what type of tender the preserved O4 has?

Managed to answer my own question by finding this image on t'internet....

http://www.flickr.com/photos/33751709@N05/4042666064/

[Atlantic 3279]

Ee Morgan lad, tha can't beat t'internet!

Now do you think that water filler is the original, or a latter-day alteration?

[45609]

Now do you think that water filler is the original, or a latter-day alteration?

An interesting question Graeme. The original GCR built 8Ks, 63601 being one, had water scoops on their tenders. However the picture shows it doesn't have a water scoop. The filler cap style and rear coal plate position looks like that provided on the locos built for the ROD. Consulting my RCTS green book there is a comment that from 1946 authority was given to remove the water scoops from O4 tenders. There are no other details and no confirmation of whether it was completed. There seem to be two possible answers to your question. Either 63601's tender got modified or at the time it was withdrawn it was married up with an ex-ROD tender. My bet would be on the latter but it would be interesting to see if this tender had any residual evidence of water scoop gear. I'm thinking of redundant bracketry, bolt holes or at the very least scars where the metalwork once was. Where is 63601 at the moment? Still at Loughborough or elsewhere?

Cheers....Morgan

[Bill Bedford]

Now do you think that water filler is the original, or a latter-day alteration?

An interesting question Graeme. The original GCR built 8Ks, 63601 being one, had water scoops on their tenders. However the picture shows it doesn't have a water scoop. The filler cap style and rear coal plate position looks like that provided on the locos built for the ROD.

Yep, the original GC tenders had the division plate further forward than the ROD tenders, http://www.flickr.com/photos/76633809@N00/1957649982/ So the O4 looks like it has an ROD tender.

[Boris]

How many of this group know this about the Class O4.

They had the easiest to empty smoke box of any loco'.
Just behing the l/h/ pony wheel was a small handle which when moved allowed all the ash to drop out.
Take a close look at some O4 pics.

[Atlantic 3279]

A look at the Bachmann website now reveals some interesting new images of the forthcoming O4, now scheduled for June/July I see (bit of a late Easter by my reckoning, but then who's surprised at a sliding Bachmann delivery date?)
I hope they get the running plate flat above the leading coupled wheels on the production versions.

Hattons site also includes images of a limited edition Hattons weathered O4, seen from angles not included in Bachmann's image selection. If the tender top is representative of all forthcoming production versions then it is a potential disappointment for fans of the GCR/LNER/earlyBR periods as it appears to me to be suitable only as a model of ROD tenders (or possibly others after 'fifties removal of water pick-up gear and relocation of rear coal plates rearwards). No good behind many other ex-GC locos and not correct behind many O4s with vacuum brake hoses on the buffer beam - which the Bachmann model appears to have! Perhaps the details will appear in the correct combinations on the production models?

[Atlantic 3279]

All the pre-production Bachmann O4s on display at York had ROD/scoopless tender top styles, including the one wearing a pre-1946 LNER number for a GC-built loco. If the RCTS book is right then this loco should have a tender with a scoop and all of the associated extra covers on top plus coal plate further forward - the process of removing scoops was not apparently authorised until 1946 and there is no suggestion that all (or any!) were dealt with immediately.

I asked "the man" at the Bachmann stand about the final production details, and showed him pictures of the scoop-fitted tender top details, but he seemed to have no prior idea that there were any differences in the prototypes' tenders Maybe I was talking to the wrong bloke - I hope so, as the information about the proper GC tender tops is readily discernible from photos in the Yeadon books, photos and drawings (including GAs) in E.M. Johnson's GC locos books, and in Charles Reddy's O4 drawing published in "The Harmonious Blacksmith Robinson".

Pessimistically however I feel perhaps an ACCURATE GC tender model is as far away as ever........

[Bill Bedford]

All the pre-production Bachmann O4s on display at York had ROD/scoopless tender top styles, including the one wearing a pre-1946 LNER number for a GC-built loco. If the RCTS book is right then this loco should have a tender with a scoop and all of the associated extra covers on top plus coal plate further forward - the process of removing scoops was not apparently authorised until 1946 and there is no suggestion that all (or any!) were dealt with immediately.

Even then the division plates were in different places so you could always tell if a scoop had been removed.

Pessimistically however I feel perhaps an ACCURATE GC tender model is as far away as ever........

That may be possible, but I would have to get a Bachmann tender to see haw the body would fit. I have alreadt done the self trimmer, but that is no use for the O4s

PS I have a set of etchings for a J11 tender here.

[Atlantic 3279]

Ta for the input Bill, especially the confirmation that the coalplates stayed forward even when scoop gear was stripped out. Do you happen to know how much / how many of the original array of covers and lids also stayed in place? Did that "coffin with half-round end" pattern of water filler remain on the de-scooped tenders, or was a more conventional round filler substituted?

An etched J11 tender may come in handy at some stage for a project I have in mind, so I'll remember that you can offer one. Of course, I could alter the Bachmann ROD tender to include all the extras, having done this to several white-metal kits that were deficient to varying degrees, and scratch-built one too, but what I am (was?) hoping for would be the correct GC pattern RTR as one of the Bachmann options.

[Alpineman]

I've been waiting for the 04 (in pre-WWII LNER livery) for months, but now it seems there is a mistake in model. I'm afraid this discussion on the detail of tenders is a bit over my head, but would the problem be resolved by renumbering the loco into one of the ex-ROD engines, which never had a water scoop? Or are there other differences in the loco or tender which would preclude this?

Alpineman

[Atlantic 3279]

Unless Bachmann do something really silly to the final model, I imagine that you will simply be able to renumber the LNER loco suitably into the ROD series and remove the vacuum brake standards and hoses front and rear. That's the easy part of the answer.

But........depending upon your degree of pedantry you may wish to look at pictures to see whether your chosen ROD at the chosen date still had oddities such as continental buffers, side chains on the buffer beams (or drillings where these had been), Westinghouse pump and hoses (or just the bracket for the pump and/or the associated gap in the boiler handrails), also whether any replacement buffers were in GC style parallel sockets or group standard stepped ones. Original GC style tall chimney, early LNER plant pot, or later Gorton "mock GC but shorter" chimney could also feature, and there are probably other points for the eagle-eyed to scrutinise and criticise, just to cause you more worries and complication!

Certainly best not to instead pick the number of an O4/6 (O5 rebuild) retaining tall cab, possibly with side window(s) and maybe "battle-axe" balance weights on the coupled wheels

[coachmann]

I know the 04 isn't even out yet, but racing ahead I hope they do the 04/8 next! Some hopes!

[Atlantic 3279]

Tender of pre-production LNER O4 seen at York show over Easter weekend.


Hmmmm, not quite, I've gone to the trouble of signing up but imageshack link not working for some reason, my incompetence no doubt

[Atlantic 3279]

Try again

Aha!