2002's 4mm projects - Pacifics +

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2002EarlMarischal
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2002's 4mm projects - Pacifics +

Post by 2002EarlMarischal »

It's time I stopped being an observer and started being a doer! Time to go on record and declare some aims and show some progress!

Those aims are:
[1] To add to my display cabinet LNER collection with both RTR models, some purchased kit-built items and hopefully some of my own conversions and maybe kit-built items - the latter categories being new ground;
[2] To create a simple diorama of 4472 Flying Scotsman at the Empire Exhibition (as discussed in my earlier thread);
[3] To build a desk-top top shed style scenario recreating those images of A4s and A3s standing outside or being prepared for the off - simply a larger diorama I suppose but perhaps using the Bachmann 4 road shed;
[4] To build an early WW2 layout based on a fictitious main-line location near to a fighter airfield (again as discussed in a recent thread).

Some years ago I purchased Jaycraft bodies for J17, J19 and D16/3 locomotives and finished them to a reasonable standard. Being based on Hornby chassis's, they looked OK next to the Hornby and Bachmann models of the 1990's and earlier but I recently sold them on eBay when I decided the newer RTR offerings just made them look crude. As others have stated, it is so hard to achieve a finish that bears comparison, unless you have significant skill. The problem with the display cabinet scenario is that you are inviting comparison, whereas on a layout one can probably get away with more imperfection, expecially with a little weathering!

A recent attempt at changing a BR green A3 Windsor Lad to wartime livery was quite successful but then wartime black is not exactly a tough livery to achieve!
LNER A3 2500 Windsor Lad in wartime black.JPG
I have just tried two of the published alternative techniques for removing lettering/numbers from the Hornby A1 Great Northern which I am changing to the Empire Exhibition Scotsman. The GN tender will be used elsewhere so I wanted to remove the small LNER and 1470N characters.

First I tried Graeme's sharp blade screwdriver method but annoyingly I have caused some scratch marks. Having used some wet and dry I hope that masking off the panel within the lining I will be able to restore a decent surface with spray paint. Clearly I was not gentle enough and re-reading Graeme's instructions I probably did more pushing than pulling! :evil:

On the other side of the tender I used the T-Cut on cotton bud method. This has left a shiny surface, and again annoyingly, I caught and will need to repair a little of the lining (which seems to be a transfer unlike the letters/numbers?).

Held at an angle, I can still see where the lettering was on both sides. (I have found this impossible to photgraph clearly). So again it looks like I need to respray the side panel.

I would like to achieve a good finish on my models before I spend a lot of time on conversions or kits, because poor painting and lining can clearly ruin a model. To that end I'm going to respray a couple of spare ex-Mallard garter blue non-corridor tenders apple green, and try my hand at lettering and lining. (To remove the tender tops I see there is a lug at the front but I'm not sure what is securing the tender top at the rear - I don't want to use brute force so can anyone guide me please?)

If the results are acceptable I'll move onto creating an apple green A4 using a Railroad Falcon. The I'd like to move onto a workshop grey Woodcock using a garter blue Kingfisher but this will require more intricate masking.

In the case of the garter blue A4 tenders, I wonder whether you would recommend leaving the LNER letters and simply spraying over - after all I could use them to locate the new transfers afterwards?

The layout will take a long time to come to fruition. Whilst I have an L-shaped shed which will permit a 19ft x 5ft-ish run along the long section of the "L", the family use it as a dumping ground and there are many things that need to be found a home before I can start. The shed insulated and lined and is fitted-out with cheap kitchen floor and wall units with worktops that will support the baseboards.

Having been a member for a couple of years, I realise that there is nothing new or exciting here, but setting out this statement of intent may get me moving!
Last edited by 2002EarlMarischal on Sat May 19, 2012 12:00 am, edited 4 times in total.
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by CVR1865 »

2002EarlMarischal wrote: I would like to achieve a good finish on my models before I spend a lot of time on conversions or kits, because poor painting and lining can clearly ruin a model. To that end I'm going to respray a couple of spare ex-Mallard garter blue non-corridor tenders apple green, and try my hand at lettering and lining. (To remove the tender tops I see there is a lug at the front but I'm not sure what is securing the tender top at the rear - I don't want to use brute force so can anyone guide me please?)
Hi 2002,
If you are using a railroad or tender drive hornby then there are two screws deep inside. If you flip it over and look at the rear tender wheel, the one on the pony truck, push it to one side and with a torch peer nervously inside and you should see a little phillips screw deep in her innerds. There are two in there, take them out and the lid should just pop off.

Thanks
Simon
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2002EarlMarischal
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 2002EarlMarischal »

Thanks very much Simon but I'm afraid I'm using the brand new loco drive tenders - I managed to pick a couple up cheaply on eBay.

Just answered my own question - didn't realise there was a screw hidden by the coupling! :oops:
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by All thumbs »

2002EarlMarischal wrote:It's time I stopped being an observer and started being a doer! Time to go on record and declare some aims and show some progress!
Go to it! Just what I am thinking as well...
2002EarlMarischal wrote:[3] To build a desk-top top shed style scenario recreating those images of A4s and A3s standing outside or being prepared for the off - simply a larger diorama I suppose but perhaps using the Bachmann 4 road shed;
I am considering Passenger Loco/bottom shed at Kings Cross - has the attraction of just a single building (the mess room). According to their manufacturers, the coal hoist will be available as an etch by Christmas (are you reading this, Santa?) and the 70' turntable may be available in 4mm in the New Year. What I want to achieve is to have say 5 or 6 locos from each of several phases, say mid-1920s, mid-1930s, 1947-ish and 1949-ish, and play ( :shock: no, run sequences) accordingly. I know that the track layout altered in that time (e.g. the coal hoist didn't arrive until c1930) but I think the early 1940s layout will be the one I go for. (At least I have got as far as scanning the layout in GN Engine sheds but have yet to attempt to import the jpeg into Templot.)
2002EarlMarischal wrote:[attachment=0]
I have just tried two of the published alternative techniques for removing lettering/numbers from the Hornby A1 Great Northern which I am changing to the Empire Exhibition Scotsman. The GN tender will be used elsewhere so I wanted to remove the small LNER and 1470N characters.

First I tried Graeme's sharp blade screwdriver method but annoyingly I have caused some scratch marks. Having used some wet and dry I hope that masking off the panel within the lining I will be able to restore a decent surface with spray paint. Clearly I was not gentle enough and re-reading Graeme's instructions I probably did more pushing than pulling! :evil:

On the other side of the tender I used the T-Cut on cotton bud method. This has left a shiny surface, and again annoyingly, I caught and will need to repair a little of the lining (which seems to be a transfer unlike the letters/numbers?).
Thanks for the warnings. If you use a matt sealing spray, won't this resolve the shiny surface? BTW nice paint job on Windsor Lad.
2002EarlMarischal wrote:In the case of the garter blue A4 tenders, I wonder whether you would recommend leaving the LNER letters and simply spraying over - after all I could use them to locate the new transfers afterwards?
Sounds like a cunning plan!

Like you, I am thinking of a diorama to get me started which will be basically a display plank. Two main lines flanked by retaining wall whcih I can take out into the garden and try and get some of those setting sun photos that B1 Tom thrills me with! :oops: It will also allow me to experiment with wall finishes - I was on top of Gasworks Tunnel taking photos on Tuesday afternoon and although bottom shed is long gone :cry: the difference in brick tyles and bonding is amazing now it is all cleaned up. I am also thinking that in my rendition of bottom shed, I may lose the grassy embankment on the west side and replace with retaining wall.

Oh well, I can dream, can't I?
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents

A scale rendition of the Passenger loco, would look good, especially if you could fit in the milk dock as well ! plenty of character, and I'm sure you'd get all the help you need of off of this forum.

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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 60800 »

[5] Create a diorama of all six surviving A4's outside the NRM :mrgreen:

I'm only missing 60008 and 60010 myslef :lol: .... and the room for it :oops:

Can't wait for the Empire exhibition Scotsman :D
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2002EarlMarischal
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 2002EarlMarischal »

I really like your ideas All Thumbs and Blackouts 6 A4 diorama appeals as well!

Coming back to my first attempt at de-numbering/de-lettering, here is a photo of the TCut side:
IMG_7390.JPG
I think I should re-spray the panel prior to re-lettering and varnish - do you agree?

I have sourced the sleeping car to go with the Empire Exhibition 4472 but annoyingly missed the end of the eBay auction for the J39 stepped-out tender. The cheap eBay donor Great Northern has lost it's cab-side maker's plates and I have re-glued the boiler/running plate/cab where it had become loose. I need to source nameplates, coat of arms transfers and do the brightwork. When I get hold of the J39 tender it will of course need to be changed to apple green so it makes sense to spray a number of items at the same time.

The Top Shed diorama I described need to fit into the office work-top recess area pictured below which is 120cm x 40cm by 46.5cm high (to the lighting pelmet:
IMG_7391.JPG
I would like to come up with something that can slide out of the recess but be shielded by a glass panel to keep the dust off. My better half will expect it to "look as smart as the Picture Pride Cabinets" which cover every bit of wall space"!

As you can see, there is no real running space but I wondered whether for interest I could create some random movement (backwards and forwards with delays) by linking to the computer which sits in the next recess!

The Bachmann 4 road shed I fancied using is 30.4cm long x 40.4cm wide x 10cm tall which means it's slightly too wide for the the depth of the recess but whether I could lose the RHS wall and create the illusion of a wider shed I don't know.
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2002EarlMarischal
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 2002EarlMarischal »

Oh, and I forgot to mention that I've made a start on changing a garter blue Kingfisher to the grey Woodcock. I've swapped the chassis with an apple green one (bought on eBay of course). This necessitated retaining the slimmer A4 cylinders of course. (Hmm I now have a red chassis left with A3 cylinders....).

It all went well until I fumbled and broke the rear cross brace of the plastic trailing wheel chassis. (Please forgive lack of proper technical descriptive terminology). After several attempts I have failed to glue it back together but having re-attached the body, I'm not sure it is that vital. I can always purchase a replacement from East Kent Models.

When it comes to masking the model for spraying workshop grey, I'm dreading trying to cover the windows etc. I've suggested my wife might volunteer for this task with her daintier fingers!

I was intending to use a Railroad corridor tender behind Kingfisher/Woodcock but they do look too heavy as has been pointed out before. If I can achieve a decent result with the GN tender off Great Northern (above), I'll swap it for the pucker corridor job I have behind a TMC USA Flying Scotsman conversion to Brown Jack, and that can be sprayed to match. It'll "just" be a matter of the lining then, (shakes in his boots).

This must all seem so pathetic compared with the modelling masterpieces elsewhere on this site. Perhaps there should be a separate category for beginners to hide in?
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by All thumbs »

2002EarlMarischal wrote:I think I should re-spray the panel prior to re-lettering and varnish - do you agree?
I'll not comment until I have gone down that route as well... :?
2002EarlMarischal wrote:As you can see, there is no real running space but I wondered whether for interest I could create some random movement (backwards and forwards with delays) by linking to the computer which sits in the next recess!
Don't know about the computer link up but DCC with all the bells, whistles and lights would do it for me! :D
2002EarlMarischal wrote:The Bachmann 4 road shed I fancied using is 30.4cm long x 40.4cm wide x 10cm tall which means it's slightly too wide for the the depth of the recess but whether I could lose the RHS wall and create the illusion of a wider shed I don't know.
Some sort of wall mirror? Sounds good but I think I would experiment with something like one of Scalescenes' engine sheds before chopping the side off the Bachmann model. Be a lot cheaper as well.
2002EarlMarischal wrote:It all went well until I fumbled and broke the rear cross brace of the plastic trailing wheel chassis.
Yup, that's me! My eBay Ladas kept sparking and juddering on the rolling road so I diagnosed shorting pick-ups. It looked relatively straightforward to loosen some screws and get the chassis away from the body. :mad: Now I know why B1 Tom doesn't separate the chassis when he's weathering... And it gets worse - could I work out how the pickups lie within the plastic keeper so as to straighten them out? :evil: Or even get the things back together? :twisted: Al least it all went back into the box before SWMBO was alerted.
2002EarlMarischal wrote:When it comes to masking the model for spraying workshop grey, I'm dreading trying to cover the windows etc.
Post-it notes cut to size are apparently the answer - again, I haven't tried these for myself yet. I was looking at 'frog tape' in Home Base last weekend - advertised as the only low-tack masking tape that doesn't allow bleed. I don't know if anyone else can comment?
2002EarlMarischal wrote:It'll "just" be a matter of the lining then, (shakes in his boots).
If Fox Transfers can do a BR orange/black/orange lining set for the GN tender as a complete box, why isn't there a white/black/white version which would do LNE green and BR blue?
2002EarlMarischal wrote:Perhaps there should be a separate category for beginners to hide in?
Don't worry, I'll keep you company!
manna wrote:A scale rendition of the Passenger loco, would look good, especially if you could fit in the milk dock as well! plenty of character, and I'm sure you'd get all the help you need of off of this forum. manna
And I think you are talking with direct experience of having worked there, aren't you? Wow! :o I hadn't realised that there is a thread on the LNER General Discussion running at the moment about Kings Cross Passenger Loco. If of interest, I have posted some of the photos I took on Tuesday.

Time for bed. :)
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents

I don't worry about what your doing, I'm having a ball reading, 'if I change this tender with that tender, and change this chassis with that'....... isn't this what or hobby is about, hacking and chopping until we get what we want, :mrgreen: carry on having fun :!:

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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by Blink Bonny »

Ay up, 2002!

As for masking the windows, try Maskol. This is a latex-type solution that dries to a rubbery texture. It can be painted onto the windows and peeled off when the paint's dry.

As for the tender sides, the small ridges left when removing the original markings will disappear when you've re-lettered and re-varnished the sides. Simples! Oh, and a propos nowt, a bit of masking tape on the lining when you remove the original printed numbers will do wonders for protecting it.
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2002EarlMarischal
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 2002EarlMarischal »

Hey thanks All Thumbs, Manna and BB, both for the encouragement and valuable tips. I know I've got to learn by my own mistakes to a degree but now I'm the wrong side of 50, I'd rather avoid as many as possible!

I'm getting a bit of a shopping list together now - tenders, transfers, nameplates etc. I'll add Maskol to it. Is there a favourite brand of varnish these days? I'll need a gloss finish for Empire Exhibition 4472 but satin or matt for the other projects.
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by Blink Bonny »

Ay up!

Gloss varnish may well be too shiny - try several satin varnishes instead although I find Railmatch satin to give a good impression of a highly polished loco. Scale colour and all that? Well, scale shine as well now! :mrgreen:

The Humbrol satin is much nearer matt than gloss. Have a go with Tamiya's Satin Acrylic. Their gloss varnish has a nice satin sheen.

Oh, and please let us know how you get on. I'm looking to weather mine but I will eventually get round to "shiny" engines again!
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 2002EarlMarischal »

Here is a shot of progress to date on the Empire Exhibition Scotsman. I've tried to represent the brightwork in a manner consistent with that already done by Hornby on the donor loco, and I have a little touching up to do where my hands weren't steady enough. The Fox supplied nameplates, maker's plates and LNER coat of arms have been applied.
IMG_7396.JPG
I'm still waiting for the right tender to pop up, and I need to check out the availability of The words "SLEEPING CARRIAGE" rather than "sleeping car" which currently adorn the side of Hornby coach I'm using.

I'm hunting for photos of the exhibition stand itself taken from different angles so I can create a realistic base.
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Re: Time to turn some ideas into reality!

Post by 52D »

Im sure a pic of Scotsman being pushed into the exhibition by a GCR loco has appeared somewhere in this forum.
EDIT;- Watch for a PM.
Last edited by 52D on Sat Nov 12, 2011 3:54 pm, edited 1 time in total.
Hi interested in the area served by 52D. also researching colliery wagonways from same area.
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