Some strange things happened in wartime

[hq1hitchin]

Brookmans Park International

http://www.brookmans.com/history/molotov/molotov.shtml


Who would have thought it?

Cheddington I can understand, right handy for Chequers

Never heard any of the old boys mention this, they must have been on the wrong shift

[StevieG]

" .... Never heard any of the old boys mention this, they must have been on the wrong shift "

Me too, neither hq1.
'Where did he stay?' - From passing trains over the years, I often noticed a moderately-sized Georgian-looking substantial house just off the west side of Station Road, about a half-mile away from Brookmans station, which could have been suitable as a discrete night stopover; - from the current A-Z of Herts., looks like it was called Potterells. [ Over recent decades (difficult o be sure from a distance) but I gained the impression that the main building was falling into disrepair and slowly disappearing.]

At the other extreme of possibilities, the A1 road was quite close to the west (I think : I believe that this 'Barnet Bypass' road already existed by 1939), and perhaps Brookmans would have been selected as a sufficiently quiet, unassuming and conveniently-sited 'jumping off' point for a discrete road journey into London, or anywhere on a vaguely north/south axis.

[Hatfield Shed]

The 'Barnet Bypass' now the route of the A1(M) certainly did exist prior to WWII, and formed a quick route into London.

So quick, that it was the reason for the 'Blower Bentley' works of Tim Birkin being located in WGC on the West of the railway near Hunters Bridge. The Barnet Bypass was the sole stretch of decent dual carriageway road in the UK that enabled the cars to be opened out as they would be on the Le Mans circuit. (From the 1950s, the 'Munts' toyshop in WGC occupied the former Birkin workshop, and didn't advertise the fact!)

There is somewhere on Youtube a very nice colour '1940 Great North Road' amateur film. Well worth a look for scenic reference alone. A stretch of the Barnet Bypass dual carriageway is featured, and also the A1's notorious narrow right angle turn in Biggleswade, which many will remember.

[jwealleans]

Slightly OT, but many stills from the film HS mentions are used in this book which I bought recently as a Christmas gift. It makes interesting reading as much for the period buildings, road markings, vehicles and street furniture as for the history of the route itself.

[hq1hitchin]

I remember spending money in Munts, oh yes! Fascinating about the Bentley boy and WGC, all I knew about WGC and road vehicles was that very briefly there was a lorry manufacturer there

Not sure what the logic would have been in stopping an up EP at Brookmans Park to detrain the Russian party if they were going to London as that's where the train was going anyway. Was it an easy drive across country to Chequers - I'm not sure about that, maybe it was?

Would love to know the full story.

[Hatfield Shed]

It would need access to a memoir of the visit planning to understand what was going on. There would have been a strong motivation to keep the soviet party out of sight, and thus avoidance of public locations like a major London terminus, and to generally conceal their movements until the job was done and they were away to the USA.

From the UK's point of view there will have been a pressing reason for putting on a good show. Molotov as Stalin's agent had allied the USSR to Nazi Germany in 1939 prior to the outbreak of WWII in a secret cooperation pact, largely on the basis that Stalin believed that France and the UK were not worth an alliance as they could not effectively resist the industrialised might of Nazi Germany. So there will have been concern to show the Molotov party evidence of some advanced industry, and bringing them south on the fastest railway service, and then driving them into London on the one section of road in the UK comparable to an Autobahn would fit with that. Smoke and mirrors are nothing new.

[strang steel]

I remember spending money in Munts, oh yes! Fascinating about the Bentley boy and WGC, all I knew about WGC and road vehicles was that very briefly there was a lorry manufacturer there

Not sure what the logic would have been in stopping an up EP at Brookmans Park to detrain the Russian party if they were going to London as that's where the train was going anyway. Was it an easy drive across country to Chequers - I'm not sure about that, maybe it was?

Would love to know the full story.

It is quite a long way to Chequers from Brookman's Park, and as someone you used to drive an almost similar route in 1972 (yes I know 30 years later) there was no obvious main road running east-west across all the roads leading to London, even in those later years, and it seemed to take an age.

However, Hatfield House is close by Brookmans Park. Maybe that was the initial destination?

[Mickey]

I remember spending money in Munts, oh yes! Fascinating about the Bentley boy and WGC, all I knew about WGC and road vehicles was that very briefly there was a lorry manufacturer there

Not sure what the logic would have been in stopping an up EP at Brookmans Park to detrain the Russian party if they were going to London as that's where the train was going anyway. Was it an easy drive across country to Chequers - I'm not sure about that, maybe it was?

Would love to know the full story.

It is quite a long way to Chequers from Brookman's Park, and as someone you used to drive an almost similar route in 1972 (yes I know 30 years later) there was no obvious main road running east-west across all the roads leading to London, even in those later years, and it seemed to take an age.

However, Hatfield House is close by Brookmans Park. Maybe that was the initial destination?

Strangely there is a place that is called 'the Chequers' just to the north of Hatfield on the road heading towards Welwyn Garden City which is approximately 2 miles away which from memory is a large'ish house with a pub & restaurant very closeby which is located to the left of the main road if your travelling from Hatfield to WGC (just north of the main Hertford-st Albans motorway duel carriageway section) and which is still there to this day although not to say that this is the Chequers thats being referred to the PMs official country residents Chequers that is.

Mention of Hatfield House reminds me of the 'Royal connection' via the Marquess of Salisbury who lived in Hatfield House just 'over the road' from Hatfield railway station.

[strang steel]

Thanks for the info, Micky. I did wonder about the obvious, i.e. if the destination was Hatfield House why not stop the train at Hatfield, but looking at the map the station there was close to the old A1, and if they were trying to keep the visit as quiet as possible with as few witnesses as they could, then Brookmans Park would seem to be a better choice, as the motorcade could sweep away down the country roads and be as incognito as possible.

[Cutter]

Birkin's Motor Work was (and the buildings still ares) on Broadwater Road, opposite the movie studio that became the Polycell factory. After the works closed however Birkin kept his single seater Brooklands Battleship car at the garage at the end of Stonehills, where the car park is now. Munts was in that vicinity, near the Broadwater Press, maybe next door? I remember the mosaic in the doorway, the bare floorboards and the bikes hanging from the rafters! Can't help with Mr Molotov though -- if his destination was London, would he not most likely have lodged at his Embassy?

[Cutter]

Forgot to add that the Barnet bypass was built in the late 20s I believe, and was where Bentley mechanics road tested chassis as they were built--until W.O. realized the speeds they were attaining. Testing was then switched to Brooklands. The Bentley works was in Cricklewood.

[giner]

I vaguely remember the name Munts but can't picture it somehow - I'm sure I went there as a kid. My first job as a journeyman compositor after my apprenticeship at The Garden City Press in Letchworth was at the old Broadwater Press. That would've been 1966 about two years before they moved up to the industrial area.

[Cutter]

Munts moved to Howardsgate in the mid 60s and was never the same.
Thinking about Molotov, would there have been a Soviet embassy in 1942 if Russia was then allied with Germany?

[53C]

Munts moved to Howardsgate in the mid 60s and was never the same.
Thinking about Molotov, would there have been a Soviet embassy in 1942 if Russia was then allied with Germany?

Was it not the case that Russia had a non aggression pact with Russia, they were not allies a such only had the agreement to carve up Poland.

Germany invaded Russian in the Summer of 1941, operation" Barbarossa"

As far as I know I think that Great Britain broke the German Enigma code for this operation and informed Stalin of the fact.!
Saying our Spies revealed this, to hide the code breaking.
He is said not to have believed the reports.
Not even when his own troops reported being overrun in the early stages of the invasion.!

Maybe others know more of this, but I think these are the historical facts.!

[Hatfield Shed]

...Thinking about Molotov, would there have been a Soviet embassy in 1942 if Russia was then allied with Germany?...

Even if it wasn't in active use the Russian/USSR embassy would have been protected under the treaty obligations. It is most likely the Soviet party would have spent time there unless it was bomb damaged or in some other way rendered unusable.

...Was it not the case that Russia had a non aggression pact with Russia, they were not allies as such, only had the agreement to carve up Poland...

A military carve up of an independent sovereign territory, by two parties forming an agreement termed a 'non-aggression pact' is a semantic joke. Just because you don't call it an alliance, doesn't conceal the reality. 'A rose by any other name' and all that...