Unknown loco

[52D]

Ok chaps, a poser. I have been going through a collection of supposed NER loco pics and have come across a few puzzlers. Normally 52A and myself can resolve NER pics. Can any one shed any light on this one. It has the look of a traction engine so i wonder if it is a Fowler or Aveling & Porter.
Alternately the numbering sequence puts it into YN&BR absorbed into the NER circa 1861.

Do you think the following describes this loco;
Crampton: 1847
Crampton twin axle locomotive with intermediate crank shaft (dummy crank shaft) drive to both axles: hence AA wheel type classifcation. One of several built by E.B. Wilson in 1847 and one acquired by YNMR in 1850. 5ft wheels. 11x18in cylinders. Total heating surface: 576. NER No. 273. David Joy called them Little Mails. MacLean p. 35-6: (No. 273 illustrated: this is an excellent illustration of this type and clearly shows the drive arrangements). The Engineer eulogized over the "neat little engines". Achieved 43 mile/h. Replaced in 1878.

[Bryan]

Might be worth contacting one of the editors of "Old Glory " magazine.
Derek Rayner springs to mind as a possible contact.

[52D]

Bryan im nearly certain now that this is a Crampton designed by David Joy/Garret and built in Leeds by W.B. Wilson for the Leeds Northern Railway.
The wheel arrangement is described as AA or 0-2-2-0 a central crank takes power to the front and rear axles.

[richard]

It has a "EB Wilson" look about it, albeit without the fluted dome.

Would the "dummy crankshaft" be what were called "jackshafts" on the early diesel shunters?

Have you checked Maclean? It sounds like it has a drawing...

[52D]

I have had a good read of relevant material on the web with 52As input and we are now confident that this is indeed the Crampton referred to in David Joys diary.
Richard im not sure if this is entirely like the Jackshaft you mention, perhaps someone more technical than myself can explain.
To continue this thread i have another pic from the same collection to post later.

[52D]

An unknown close coupled 0-4-0 tender locomotive with a two digit number and a name. I suspected an early Tayleur locomotive (forerunners to Vulcan Foundry/EE). I have seen pics of early Tayleur 0-4-0 locos but they are made with a much wider wheel spacing.
Incidentally Vulcan Foundry have a very good web site i will link it here with an edit.

EDIT: - http://www.enuii.org/vulcan_foundry/index.htm

[richard]

That one has more than a passing resemblance to a Bouch Long Boiler. General long boiler design, same dome as used by Bouch, same 'Quaker jar' sandboxes, and the same S&D buffer beam (with lower dumb buffers for working chaldrons).

It bet it pitched more than a bucking bronco, though!


Richard

[52D]

Thanks for the input Richard I had not thought of Bouch. Time to check.

[richard]

Spare moment, and I looked in "Locomotives of the Stockton & Darlington" (TR Pearce).

The above photo is reproduced on Figure 78 (page 95). It is No. 41 "Dart". That's the S&D number, the page also shows a drawing rebuilt with later boiler, and a photo in 1875 as No. 1041.

Hackword designed, "small passenger engine". Delivered April 1840. Inside cylinders, long boiler type. Gab gear. Number later reused for "London" (I bet that leads to confusion!). Letter from Hackworth and minutes add some puzzles, as it was offered as "similar to No. 28 Sunbeam" (which it isn't), and the minutes describe it as a coal engine. 4ft 5in diameter. "a very useful engine that lasted into NER ownership". Rebuilt late 1860s, probably took part in the 1875 celebrations.
Possibly the last Hackworth locomotive whilst he was the line's chief locomotive engineer.

[52D]

Richard when you sent that i was writing out the following;
There is a possibility that unidentified 0-4-0 loco 2 is S&DR No.41 DART does anyone own Pearces book on that railway and could they have a glance through to see if we are on the right track.

An excellent result.

[52D]

Definitely a coal or mixed traffic engine check out the double buffers as Richard noted.

[Bryan]

Bryan im nearly certain now that this is a Crampton designed by David Joy/Garret and built in Leeds by W.B. Wilson for the Leeds Northern Railway.
The wheel arrangement is described as AA or 0-2-2-0 a central crank takes power to the front and rear axles.

I pushed the question to Derek Rayner of Old Glory and he asked around a bit and got this answer from a Donald Townsley :-


An easy one to answer.

North Eastern Railway no273 was one of several Crampton Patent four wheeled coupled tank engines with long wheelbase and intermediate jackshaft built by E B Wilson around 1850 and christened "Little Mails' by David Joy. 273 was new to the York & North Midland Railway and passed to the North Eastern when the NER was formed in 1854.

Joy liked the Little Mails and a report in 'The Engineer' described no 273 as 'a well finished, neat little engine that with a light train had run steadily at 43mph.'

273 was withdrawn and replaced by a BTP 0-4-4T in 1878.

Wheels 5'-0" dia on 10'-11" wheelbase. Two 11" x 18" inside cylinders. Boiler 3'-0" dia barrell, 9'-3" between tube plates, 110 tubes of 2" dia. Pressure 100ppsi. Frames 19'-0" long x 8" deep x 1.25" thick. Length overall 22'-4". Stephenson's link motion.


Similar locomotives by E B Wilson to Ambergate, Nottingham & Boston & Eastern Junction Railway (later Great Northern Rly) (3), Kendal & Windermere Railway, later Lancaster & Carlisle Rly, later London & North Western Railway (2).

May have been more, surviving records are not of the best.

[killian keane]

Interesting little chappie that intermediate crankshaft wilson, towards the end of chronicles of boultons siding, boulton notes the prescence of such a wilson engine at Crewe on january 7th 1861 built 1852 lnwr no. 530