Early Track to Train Radio Problem
Moderators: 52D, Tom F, Rlangham, Atlantic 3279, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun, richard
Early Track to Train Radio Problem
I was working at KX in the Telecoms Dept on the first floor of the Power Box in the 80s when the first generation Track to Train Radio system was installed. I remember a period when we had a particular problem with the system involving the frequent activation of the emergency call function. If I recall correctly, it became very frequent and thus disruptive to the signalling operations and I think there was even some discussion about imposing a speed limit on all trains out of KX until we sorted the problem (not sure if that was true).
Obviously we were highly focussed on fixing the issue, but there was a lot of head scratching by the Technician Officers at the time. I think the manufacturers were also called in to try and locate the cause. The system relied on frequency tones for various functions and there was an attempt to try and trace where the signal was coming from. I think some agency responsible for radio transmissions was called upon to asisst.
Eventually, the problem was located to a taxi driver that had decided to start operating around the Kings Cross area with a radio and using a frequency that was the same as the emergency signal of the track to train radio system. Every time the driver transmitted, it caused an associated emergency call to the signal box. Problem resolved soon after.
This was around 30 years ago so the years may have blurred reality.
Anyone operating in the power box in the 80s remember this event?
Cheers
S&T
Obviously we were highly focussed on fixing the issue, but there was a lot of head scratching by the Technician Officers at the time. I think the manufacturers were also called in to try and locate the cause. The system relied on frequency tones for various functions and there was an attempt to try and trace where the signal was coming from. I think some agency responsible for radio transmissions was called upon to asisst.
Eventually, the problem was located to a taxi driver that had decided to start operating around the Kings Cross area with a radio and using a frequency that was the same as the emergency signal of the track to train radio system. Every time the driver transmitted, it caused an associated emergency call to the signal box. Problem resolved soon after.
This was around 30 years ago so the years may have blurred reality.
Anyone operating in the power box in the 80s remember this event?
Cheers
S&T
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Re: Early Track to Train Radio Problem
It's only in more recent years that there's been a more reliable method of having direct contact between signaller's & driver's and vice versa and thats via the GSM-R satellite phone that was originally developed by the military and was used by them during the time of the 1st Gulf war in 1990/91.
GSM-R phones are nowadays located in all s/boxes, PSBs, IECCs and on all locos & units including preserved steam locos running on Network Rail.
SPTs (Signal Post Telephones) are hardly used these days and are virtually becoming redundant just like the public telephone box.
GSM-R phones are nowadays located in all s/boxes, PSBs, IECCs and on all locos & units including preserved steam locos running on Network Rail.
SPTs (Signal Post Telephones) are hardly used these days and are virtually becoming redundant just like the public telephone box.
Re: Early Track to Train Radio Problem
"SPTs becoming redundant" - that will be why train operators are insisting in NR fitting them for all resignalling schemes, along with the little walkways, all of which then get overgrown with weeds.
The railway does know how to waste money!
The railway does know how to waste money!
- 52D
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Re: Early Track to Train Radio Problem
SPTs are worthwhile holding on to as if say a member of this forum was lineside and noted a problem such as a broken rail they could hop over the fence and alert the signalman. I know track circuiting etc should detect problems but you cant have too much safety.
Hi interested in the area served by 52D. also researching colliery wagonways from same area.
Re: Early Track to Train Radio Problem
Somewhere I have a copy of a letter detailing a proposed "Live LinK" on a TV programme involving a Scarborough Spa Express and a Helicopter in the early 80s.
With the thought that a member of the TV crew could Hang out of a door on a brake vehicle and aim a dish at the chasing Helicopter.
It did say that the crewman should be restrained adequately.
The link up never took place as the Board would not approve it.
Does that qualify as a Train Radio problem?
With the thought that a member of the TV crew could Hang out of a door on a brake vehicle and aim a dish at the chasing Helicopter.
It did say that the crewman should be restrained adequately.
The link up never took place as the Board would not approve it.
Does that qualify as a Train Radio problem?
Re: Early Track to Train Radio Problem
Reference SPTs?. I can only speak for the area that i'm working on the North London lines but our SPTs at signals are hardly ever used these days at all by driver's since we've had the GSM-R phone system up & running on the area for nearly the last 2 years now infact there was a rumour doing the rounds a while ago that SPTs were eventually going to be abolished altogether!!.
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Re: Early Track to Train Radio Problem
Yep. Don't recall hearing that the cause was a taxi though - not meaning that it wasn't, I just don't remember hearing what was causing the false-activating tone.S&T wrote: " .... Anyone operating in the power box in the 80s remember this event?
Cheers
S&T "
BZOH
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- StevieG
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Re: Early Track to Train Radio Problem
Not sure whether that's yet true everywhere Micky, though it will be. I've a feeling (may be wrong) that GSM-R's not yet operational in one or two areas (and so, where CSR was provided, it may still be working in such areas).Micky wrote: " .... GSM-R phones are nowadays located in all s/boxes, PSBs, IECCs and on all locos & units including preserved steam locos running on Network Rail. .... "
BZOH
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- StevieG
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Re: Early Track to Train Radio Problem
Can't quote technical chapter and verse, but for some time now, one type, called 'Single Rail track circuit' (I think being advantageous in A.C. electrified areas may be one reason for their use) may not detect some broken rails - depends in which rail any break may have occurred.52D wrote: " .... was lineside and noted a problem such as a broken rail they could hop over the fence and alert the signalman. I know track circuiting etc should detect problems but you cant have too much safety. "
BZOH
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