I have always been interested in footplate crews attire (what they wore) and have noticed that young firemen especially on the southern region during the last few years of steam during the 1960s up to 1967 on the LSWR route out of Waterloo at Nine Elms, Salisbury, Bournemouth & Weymouth sheds sometimes wore there 'grease top hats' self customised in a military style of army forage cap way with the hats peak sometimes bent downwards or even slashed to cover the eyes with the front of the hat pushed upwards with the enamel BRITISH RAILWAYS totem badge below at the front so I presume that was just a 'trend of the times' amongst some southern region firemen but also some firemen didn't appear to bother wearing the grease top hat but wore a white/grey knotted handkerchief on there head instead. Also I presume that many if not all of the young firemen on the southern region during the early/mid 1960s era were in there mid/late 20s and 30s and that they had once been 'national service men' so hence the military style way that some of time had self customised there grease top hats. Finally all footplate men usually wore the bib & braces type of faded overalls with a similar jacket finished off with a pair of army ammo boots.
Nine Elms locomen's link below.
http://www.svsfilm.com/nineelms/men.htm
Mickey
1960s southern locomen
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John Palmer
- NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
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Re: 1960s southern locomen
Mickey, it's an interest I share as I'm anxious to populate the footplates of my models with crews of realistic appearance, preferably in a reposing posture (e.g. rather than in mid-shovel chuck in the case of firemen). Enginemen leaning on their cab cutouts used to be difficult to simulate but have become a lot easier since some superb 3D printed crew figures became available.
The knotted handkerchief doesn't seem to have been uncommon or confined to Southern Region – the fireman on last SDJR 7F working to Evercreech was so attired. What surprised me about the Nine Elms crew pictures was the absence of any berets, as favoured, for example, by Peter Smith on the S&D when on firing duties. As Peter himself pointed out, berets don't suffer the disadvantage of greasetops or any other form of peaked cap that if the engine's slipstream gets under the brim your headgear is liable to be whisked away by it.
The knotted handkerchief doesn't seem to have been uncommon or confined to Southern Region – the fireman on last SDJR 7F working to Evercreech was so attired. What surprised me about the Nine Elms crew pictures was the absence of any berets, as favoured, for example, by Peter Smith on the S&D when on firing duties. As Peter himself pointed out, berets don't suffer the disadvantage of greasetops or any other form of peaked cap that if the engine's slipstream gets under the brim your headgear is liable to be whisked away by it.
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Mickey
Re: 1960s southern locomen
It's actually a bit of an overlooked subject to some extent John I've always been interested in looking at pictures of loco crews from the first one that I remember seeing (and can still visually remember it) back in 1967 when I was a youngster showing the top half of a B.R. driver & fireman. The driver who looked about 50 ish(?) wore the greased topped hat and a light faded overalls jacket with a darker B.R jacket on top while his fireman who looked about 25 ish(?) also wore a faded overalls jacket but it was slightly darker plus a white/grey knotted handkerchief on his head.
I also remember seeing a picture a couple of years after the above one of a Western Region footplate crew from the 1950s at Old Oak Common shed. The driver was your typical B.R driver of about mid 50s who wore the slightly faded overalls jacket with a darker B.R jacket on top and a B.R. greased topped hat but his fireman was a born Frenchman who wore a French style beret!. I have always remembered those two pictures and the funny thing is I have never seen either of those two pictures every again in 50 years in any railway books?.
About 2-3 years ago while I was in the Ian Alan shop at Waterloo I saw a small book by ex Nine Elms fireman Clive Groom (he's probably known of by a number of people on this forum) and he produced and had published a small book on locomen's attire and apparently the way locomen dressed varied around the country from region to region for example from memory it said GNR men always only buttoned up the top button of there jacket the rest of the jacket was left open which if you see old photographs of GNR or LNER/GN locomen they do only button up the top button of there jacket the rest is left open!.
Mickey
I also remember seeing a picture a couple of years after the above one of a Western Region footplate crew from the 1950s at Old Oak Common shed. The driver was your typical B.R driver of about mid 50s who wore the slightly faded overalls jacket with a darker B.R jacket on top and a B.R. greased topped hat but his fireman was a born Frenchman who wore a French style beret!. I have always remembered those two pictures and the funny thing is I have never seen either of those two pictures every again in 50 years in any railway books?.
About 2-3 years ago while I was in the Ian Alan shop at Waterloo I saw a small book by ex Nine Elms fireman Clive Groom (he's probably known of by a number of people on this forum) and he produced and had published a small book on locomen's attire and apparently the way locomen dressed varied around the country from region to region for example from memory it said GNR men always only buttoned up the top button of there jacket the rest of the jacket was left open which if you see old photographs of GNR or LNER/GN locomen they do only button up the top button of there jacket the rest is left open!.
Mickey