NER Dynamometer Car

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Dave
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by Dave » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:26 am

ahardy,
Thank you for those interior pics, very interesting and useful, a pity you did not take more.

jwealleans
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by jwealleans » Thu Aug 27, 2015 9:33 am

Didn't Mike Trice put some interior shots on this forum some time ago? About the time there was a lot of fuss about it being left out in the rain and damaged?

adrianbs
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by adrianbs » Thu Sep 20, 2018 12:56 pm

Hi Folks Who is one supposed to believe ?? The NRM full size car is claimed to be in the post-war, pre1948 repaint condition, as is the version 2 by Rails/Rapido. They can't both be right with all the livery, lettering and detail differences, yet both are claimed to be authentic according to various sources, including the NRM curators ??!! Who do we believe, especially when there is a growing collection of photographic and documentary evidence which seems to point to neither being accurate. Personally my money is on Mike Trice's final conclusions, coupled with pictures of the preserved vehicle used in conjunction with pictures taken during the 1948 trials.
....This would mean the preserved coach should have lining, an obscured toilet window, a dark coloured speed recording wheel and a slightly different layout of the "Dynamometer Car" lettering. Other differences may exist but are probably insignificant, especially in model terms. This leaves a very big question mark over the accuracy of much of the livery on this model and leads one to suspect that the version 1, 1938 model, may well be similarly afflicted.
....I have always been puzzled as to why the preserved car was not restored to it's 1938 "Day of Glory" condition, especially as it has spent most of it's life in preservation behind Mallard. Of course Mallard did not have a record Plaque and other minor details at that date. I am not aware it travelled behind Mallard in the trials and Mallard itself would have looked rather different in 1948.

MikeTrice
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by MikeTrice » Thu Sep 20, 2018 1:28 pm

In fairness the responsibility for the current state of the Dynamometer Car predates the NRM as works were carried out for the Clapham Transport Museum in 1963. I agree that it is odd that the car does not attempt to represent the 1938 condition and it might be the case that at the time of preservation thought had not gone into displaying it with Mallard. The lettering is primarily hand painted and it appears that good reference photographs were not used (or were not available) when recreating it. Perhaps someone at York (who prepared the exterior of the DC) thought they knew better.

The clear toilet window is simply to allow visitors to be able to see the original toilet and fittings not unreasonable for a museum exhibit. The dark speed recording wheel in the photos might just be layers of grime.

So should the museum line the vehicle? In my view, probably not. As preserved 95% of the DC is as turned out for BR with the simulated teak effect dating from 1949 and I would be loath to see the original authentic paint finish being changed. There might be good argument for the panels painted out in 1963 being reinstated with BR livery, then the car would be reasonable correct instead of its current half and half state.

Mallard is a different kettle of fish as it has been fully stripped and repainted a few times so there is no excuse for continuing to get it wrong. What has certainly happened (and I have photos to support this) is when the buffer beam number were repainted they used colour photographs of the previous incorrect ones as a guide instead of referring to original photos.

Should the DC ever be deemed to need to be fully stripped and repainted then there is no excuse not to restore it back to 1938 condition to go with Mallard.
Last edited by MikeTrice on Fri Sep 21, 2018 1:44 pm, edited 1 time in total.

drmditch
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by drmditch » Thu Sep 20, 2018 4:42 pm

Post Removed.
Last edited by drmditch on Tue Sep 25, 2018 10:08 am, edited 1 time in total.

adrianbs
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by adrianbs » Sat Sep 22, 2018 3:53 pm

Hi Folks I entirely agree with Mike Trice's view as to what should be done with the Dyno Car at the NRM in the interests of authenticity although that does jar with parking it behind Mallard. Earlier it was said the coach was moved to Clapham not fully restored and a volunteer completed the job. I wonder if the intention had been to line the coach again but this may have been beyond the resources of the museum or the volunteer. The cost of getting a professional sign writer to reline the whole coach would nave been not inconsiderable and something an amateur would not have wanted to attempt. It would also have meant redoing the number to replicate the 1938 livery if that had been the ultimate goal. Quite when the original NER white clerestory roof changed from white to it's current mid grey is also a problem. So few photos show anything apart from the side roofs which remain reddish brown, probably always being the same colour as in 1906.

MikeTrice
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by MikeTrice » Mon Sep 24, 2018 10:19 am

There is what I assume to be an "official" photo of the DC taken after fitting of the vestibules and Gresley bogies and numbered 23591. The copy I have looks to be a low resolution scan from a book or magazine but I have to date been unable to relocate the publication. I really must try and get a better copy from the NRM. The reason for mentioning it is in this photo the measuring wheel does appear white. The roof also appears to be a lighter colour but that could just be light from the sky. Unfortunately the image I have is too poor a quality to be certain either way. In spite of that there does still seem to be lining present.

I recently bought a colour slide showing the Dynamometer Car during the Exchange Trials coupled to 63773. Although again detail is not that apparent the most interesting thing is that both the roof and underframe are just weathered dirt of a general grey/soot colour.

MikeTrice
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by MikeTrice » Mon Sep 24, 2018 12:31 pm

On another thread either here or RMWeb the question was raised as to why the two corridor connections were different on the Dynamometer Car. The end that is away from the engine has a full vestibule and bellows to connect to carriages coupled behind, however the bellows themselves are missing from the locomotive end, all very odd. David Peel's book "Locomotive Testing on Britain's Railways, 1901-1968: A Non-technical Overview" (which I have temporarily mislaid) states this is due to bellows at the locomotive end impacting readings from the drawbar measuring mechanism which in hindsight makes sense. Worryingly the connection could still be used to transfer to corridor tenders but I suspect you would need nerves of steel to attempt walking over the gap if used at speed.

I have also been considering what would have been involved when the duckets were fitted. These replaced an end window and could be done relatively easily. The outer mouldings were removed and the new duckets screwed in place:
hoather_dynamometer detail s.jpg
Note the moulding above the ducket. It would have been possible to horizontally cut through the original moulding (leaving part of the curved recess omitted) but comparison of before and after photos shows that they made new shallower mouldings for the space above the duckets complete with restoring the lining around the recess and outer edge.

MikeTrice
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by MikeTrice » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:11 pm

There is a new-to-me photo of the Dynamometer Car during the Exchange Trials on Steve Banks' website: https://www.steve-banks.org/prototype-a ... ak-coaches

mick b
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by mick b » Sat Sep 29, 2018 7:30 pm

As the other thread is locked . Rails are saying less than 50 left of the 4mm V1 version.



Now sold out.
Last edited by mick b on Sun Oct 07, 2018 10:17 pm, edited 2 times in total.

adrianbs
LNER J39 0-6-0
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by adrianbs » Sun Sep 30, 2018 12:41 pm

Hi Folks With all the hype and publicity it is hardly a surprise these will soon sell out. YouTube videos do not make critical comments and anyone adding such remarks in the comments section soon finds them redacted. Fake News is everywhere these days and the model trade is no exception. I wonder how long it will be for new variants to appear such as the post 1948 BR livery version which does at least have the advantage of actually having NO lining. Perhaps the NRM curators will soon be seen on the roof of the DC with buckets of off-white paint endeavouring to ensure more authenticity.
….We can also expect the version without duckets as the tooling has been designed for this at the expense of some inaccuracy of the panel above the ducket on the current models. Sadly it seem unlikely we will see this version lined or with correct roof colours and if the original NER version were planned it would look awful in crimson lake with no lining. If the roof is not repainted perhaps the "As preserved" version will appear with the lettering of version 2 repeated and the duo tone roof.
…..Mike Trice and I have been unsuccessful in determining when the dynamo was replaced but certainly the model is incorrect for the 1948 version, and subsequently, as it is the wrong shape and seriously mispositioned. The likely occasion would have been 1928 when the bogies were changed to the Gresley design as this might well have meant fitting a standard LNER dynamo.
… The original large Westinghouse brake cylinder was removed at some unknown point and only the operating levers still remain. This may have been at the same time as the bogies but the photographic record is not good for the early years and only one well known picture seems to exist in NER days. The original NER GA differs in various ways underneath to the model and prototype but only one side has appeared in photographs so quite what the other side looked like I am not sure.

MikeTrice
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by MikeTrice » Mon Oct 01, 2018 2:51 pm

As preserved the Dynamometer Car has various white painted identifiers for the various connections on the ends:
IMG_1127.JPG
This has always reminded me of the 1960's Batman TV series where everything was labelled.

It is only recently I have begun to question whether this lettering was added to the preserved vehicle for museum display purposes. Looking at the 1938 and 1949 images I can see no sign of that lettering prior to museum display so presumably it was.

adrianbs
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by adrianbs » Fri Nov 23, 2018 6:56 pm

Hi Folks Interesting news about the two new recruits to the Locomotion staff. I wonder if they might reconsider the appearance of the proposed Locomotion Mallard/Dynamometer car gift set and try to persuade Rapido to at least correct the serious livery errors. It is doubtful if detail errors can now be altered but the model could at least have the roof colours and graining changed. With lining added it would looks so much more accurate if it was intended to portray the 1938 condition as advertised.

adrianbs
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by adrianbs » Thu Dec 06, 2018 1:12 pm

Hi Folks, Mike Trice's "Labours of Hercules" on the DC have now been published "Elsewhere" for those who are interested in seeing what this model should look like. I assume the doubters who have tried to make out that the errors previously mentioned are " just the "opinions" of those who wish to discredit Rapido" will now be satisfied. Personally I would not consider £125 a price worth paying for such a flawed model, especially when compared to something like the latest Hornby Maunsell Kitchen/Diners which are not likely to sell in significantly greater numbers but can be bought for a third of the price and are much more accurate in both detail and livery and were far more deserving of the "Model of the Year" award.

Mikes patience has clearly been exhausted with this model and he has left many of the underframe errors untouched based on the fact that most are not visible from a normal viewpoint. Quite why Rapido went to the trouble to tool all these details when much is pure fiction and cannot be seen is a mystery. At the same time they have omitted some of the simple and most visible roof detail and made errors on other components, probably explained by advice given by the wrong people. I look forward to NCIM ensuring that the "EVEN MORE EXPENSIVE" gift set version receives those improvements made by Mike which can be made without major tooling changes and are largely livery alterations.

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coachmann
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Re: NER Dynamometer Car

Post by coachmann » Thu Dec 06, 2018 6:06 pm

Lucky me was sent a Dynamometer Car and one day I will get around to lining it out. It is not an easy coach to place on a historical layout if one happens not to model the LNER. But one use that springs to mind would be to insert it in a fictitious ' North Wales & Borders Land Cruise' formation, a depository for the protection of 'summer-only' elderly coaches...

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