Some Detective Work Please.....

[drmditch]

Last week while drinking morning coffee, as one does, and browsing, as one does, RCTS Part 3C, I noticed a particularly intriguing picture; as one does, from time to time!

Fig 103, facing page 77, shows D20 No. 707. The caption states that it is leaving York with a Scarborough to Leeds train circa 1930. I haven't yet researched the locomotive details to attempt to pin down the date further, but the item that took my interest is the leading van in the train.

As far as my eyes (which are still waiting for new spectacles) can see, it has the following characteristics:-
1 - 6 Wheels
2 - Four sliding doors with crossed diagonal external framing, sliding towards the centre. The doors offset towards the ends.
3 - Horizontally planked van sides, with no external framing
4 - Footsteps beneath the doors
5 - Fairly high-arc roof
6 - The letters 'N' and 'E' between the doors.

It is presumably an item of pre-grouping NPCS, but I can't find any indication of what it's origin might be in any of the admirable Mr Tatlow's works.
I'm pretty sure that it's not an ex-NER vehicle. I did think of an ex-NB 6-wheel van, but 3,5 and 6 above would appear to contradict that.
It has a GC look to it, I think, but neither I nor my luncheon guests yesterday could identify it further.

Perhaps some of the clever and knowledgeable people on this forum could tell us more?

[drmditch]

With this morning's coffee, I was checking Yeadon Vol.34 to see if the same picture was reproduced in a larger format. I didn't find it, but did find another fascinating picture of NER No.1206 in NER Green, hauling what looks like another secondary passenger train(?). The two leading vehicles appear to be G&SWR 25' Milk and Motor Car Vans, as shown in Mr Tatlow's Historic Railway Carriages Vol.3, on page 8. Unfortunately he doesn't include a drawing for these vehicles, and no further description other than the photograph caption.

It does seem an interesting example of what an 'integrated transport facility' the pre-grouping companies provided, and would make another fascinating model train.
I can't identify the location, but according to the same volume of Yeadon, 1206 would have been a Gateshead engine at the time. Could it be somewhere on Tyneside or on the Carlisle line? There is an interesting siding arrangement in the RG foreground, and a fairly distinctive church spire in the LH background.

[2512silverfox]

The first vehicle you mention is a NBR CCT I am pretty sure.

[drmditch]

The first vehicle you mention is a NBR CCT I am pretty sure.

Thank you. Do you know of any source for more information? It would make an interesting model, especially if it used the NB flexible wheelbase - to get round my curves!

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up!

Try this for info:

http://www.nbrstudygroup.co.uk/nbr/carr ... l.htm#NPCS

[drmditch]

Ay up!

Try this for info:

http://www.nbrstudygroup.co.uk/nbr/carr ... l.htm#NPCS

Thanks. I found that link as well. On a quick scan I didn't see if the NBR Study Group published any drawings, akin to the NERA publications. Is there someone who is a member on this forum?

[2512silverfox]

There was a drawing in either RM or MRC in the 70s but I cannot find it at the moment.

[jwealleans]

Now funnily enough Mr King and I were discussing this very vehicle only a few weeks ago. I'd be interested in knowing where that drawing might be found, Nick, if you do turn it up.

[swhite01]

From an Index I have there is a note - NBR 6W CCT - MRC Jan 1968. It doesn't state if there is a drawing.

Hope this helps,

Stve

[drmditch]

From an Index I have there is a note - NBR 6W CCT - MRC Jan 1968. It doesn't state if there is a drawing.
Hope this helps,
Stve

I've just been looking through my early magazines (earliest MRC 1974). Didn't find anything, but somehow I think I've seen a drawing somewhere.

[EHertsGER]

Another mystery - at least, it is to me...

I spotted this in David Dents wonderful little book '150 Years of the Hertford and Ware Railway' and so tried to track down the diagram number - and indeed the possibility of modeling one.

Can anyone help identify it, please. I have attached the photograph which depicts the van in question behind its locomotive sitting in the Buntingford Branch bay at St Margaret's in Hertfordshire.

Any guidance would be very welcome! My thanks in advance,

Best,
Marcus

[EHertsGER]

After a bit of ferreting about - not being the sort who waits for some one else to do the job for me unless all else is lost - I came up with the van in the first image on Paul Bartlett's wonderful site...

Clues include:

Four doors (two each side - duh!)
Roof profile
Prominent lower door runner thingy

Apparently it is an "LMS 6-wheel Covered Combination Truck (Diag.1872)
These were 30ft 5in with a 10ft 6in + 10ft 6in wheelbase, although those built in 1934 had a 4in shorter body. The design used second-hand carriage underframes, the most numerous types being of Midland origin, though some batches used former LNWR frames. Many were transferred to general railway service stock (departmental) and lasted into the mid-1960s." to quote the MRE/RMWeb 2013 poll here some time back...

...apparently it scored quite well...


Or, it could be the second one...


...or indeed diagrams 1873/1874...but in a passenger formation? Methinks 1871/1872...

...but that is the best I have so far.

Now, who makes a kit...? falcon Brassworks have kits for Dia 1873/1874 listed (despite all the chatter here about old Jidenco kits I have no reason to doubt them) which looks like a little modification could give me the 1871/1872, so I have ordered one...let's see...

Best,
Marcus

[jwealleans]

One of these?



Roger Chivers, Kit RC130.

[John Palmer]

I have a copy of a MRC plan for a NBR Diag. 84B CCT. The drawing's draughtsman is/was J.E.Hay (is that John Hay?). I assume this is the one shown in drmditch's index as appearing in the Jan. 1968 edition, but my copy is from a time when edition details didn't appear on each page of the magazine, so I can't confirm its date. Reason for this is that I gutted my old MRC's for plans and other items of lasting interest before disposing of the remainder, so I now have a number of old plans, etc as individual (undated) pages.

[drmditch]

I have a copy of a MRC plan for a NBR Diag. 84B CCT. The drawing's draughtsman is/was J.E.Hay (is that John Hay?). I assume this is the one shown in drmditch's index as appearing in the Jan. 1968 edition, but my copy is from a time when edition details didn't appear on each page of the magazine, so I can't confirm its date. Reason for this is that I gutted my old MRC's for plans and other items of lasting interest before disposing of the remainder, so I now have a number of old plans, etc as individual (undated) pages.

Thank you. I have done the same with some of my older magazines and owing to a house move will shortly have to do more.
If I send a PM, is there any chance that you could scan the drawing for me?
It would be fun to build this vehicle, since I've managed to make one NBR 6-wheel van... ..here...
I'm working (slowly) on a number of CCTs.