West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by Darryl Tooley » Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:55 am

The 'West Riding Limited' and the 'West Riding Pullman' were two separate and distinct services, the former running from 1937-39 and the latter from 1927-1935. The stock for the former was indeed similar to that on the 'Coronation'.

D

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by teaky » Fri Sep 29, 2017 7:56 am

Graeme Leary wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 2:22 am
Apologies for returning to this topic which I thought I'd well and truly covered over the last few months. However, whilst recently in the UK I picked up a 2nd hand copy of Geoffrey Hughes' 'LNER', a great history of and background to the company.

But, he states something I'd not heard previously that (on p61) 'The Coronation' and 'The West Riding Pullman' trains were similar, both consisting of four ARTICULATED twins' (my capitals). I cannot recall any earlier mention of 'articulated' coaches on the WPR nor do any photos I have indicate any with them. (As I also bought another model Pullman coach - a Brake 3rd - to renumber and complete what I thought would represent a correct 'set' of WPR coaches would be grateful if this articulated issue could be clarified).

Graeme Leary
New Zealand

Geoffrey Hughes says " 'The Coronation' and 'The West Riding Limited' ...".

The West Riding Pullman did not include any articulated stock. I'm not aware that any Pullman cars were ever articulated. Certainly not in the UK.

btw This was mentioned last year in your other Pullman thread. Pay attention at the back there. :P

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by jwealleans » Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:13 am

The Coronation and West Riding Limited were formed of four artic twins.

The West Riding Pullman preceded these by some years and was renamed the Yorkshire Pullman when the West Riding began to run in 1937. It did not use articulated vehicles.

Robert Carroll of this parish has just had an article published in the LNER Society Journal which covers all the LNER pullman services.

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by Graeme Leary » Fri Sep 29, 2017 8:34 pm

But of course - I've fallen into the same hole I dug for myself sometime back ie getting the West Riding Pullman mixed up with the West Riding Limited.
Many thanks (and my apologies).
Graeme

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by JASd17 » Fri Sep 29, 2017 10:12 pm

Graeme,

Don't be too hard on yourself. The working of the Yorkshire Pullman in LNER days, in particular, would trouble many people.

For the Clayton Project the team are only concerned with the Halifax portion of the West Riding Pullman, thankfully.

John

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by Graeme Leary » Sat Sep 30, 2017 10:32 pm

Thank you John for your comments, but could you please explain the 'Clayton Project'. Not an expression I've come across previously.
Graeme

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by 52D » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:03 am

Although off topic graham you may be interested in a typical late LNER train formation, this is the formation of the 1145 Edinburgh Kings Cross express which crashed at Goswick, Northumberland 26/10/1947.
Locomotive A3 class No.66 Merry Hampton
Brake first No.170
First corridoor No.11064
First corridor No.1136
Restaurant first No.1419
Kitchen Car No.1420
Restaurant third No.1421
Third corridor No.1370
Third corridor No.1441
Third corridor No.1764
Third corridor No.1013
Third corridor No.1043
Third corridor No.1359
Third corridor No.1050
Third corridor No.1040
Third corridor No.18702
Perhaps our readers could comment further i am interested in the two restaurant cars and the kitchen car, i note consecutive numbers would this be a triple set.
Hi interested in the area served by 52D. also researching colliery wagonways from same area.

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by JASd17 » Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:40 am

Thank you John for your comments, but could you please explain the 'Clayton Project'. Not an expression I've come across previously.
Graeme

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... 5-clayton/

Graeme, 'The Clayton Project' is explained by the link, I think. I was asked to help with a specific aspect of the project, which I did, I am now a member of the Shipley Club and enjoying the troublesome tasks required to progress such a layout in EM gauge.

Not the least of which is the articulated-Howlden sets required.

John

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by robertcwp » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:17 pm

52D wrote:
Sun Oct 01, 2017 12:03 am
Although off topic graham you may be interested in a typical late LNER train formation, this is the formation of the 1145 Edinburgh Kings Cross express which crashed at Goswick, Northumberland 26/10/1947.
Locomotive A3 class No.66 Merry Hampton
Brake first No.170
First corridoor No.11064
First corridor No.1136
Restaurant first No.1419
Kitchen Car No.1420
Restaurant third No.1421
Third corridor No.1370
Third corridor No.1441
Third corridor No.1764
Third corridor No.1013
Third corridor No.1043
Third corridor No.1359
Third corridor No.1050
Third corridor No.1040
Third corridor No.18702
Perhaps our readers could comment further i am interested in the two restaurant cars and the kitchen car, i note consecutive numbers would this be a triple set.
1419/20/21 were one of the 1928 Flying Scotsman restaurant triplets, written off as a result of the accident I believe.

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by robertcwp » Sun Oct 01, 2017 6:27 pm

jwealleans wrote:
Fri Sep 29, 2017 9:13 am
The Coronation and West Riding Limited were formed of four artic twins.

The West Riding Pullman preceded these by some years and was renamed the Yorkshire Pullman when the West Riding began to run in 1937. It did not use articulated vehicles.

Robert Carroll of this parish has just had an article published in the LNER Society Journal which covers all the LNER pullman services.
Well that shows that at least one person has read it :D .

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by Graeme Leary » Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:18 am

Thanks JASd17 - 5 minutes after sending my post I suddenly thought it might have had something to do with earlier topic regarding Clayton and Sentinel-Cammell steam railcars I had hammered for a while when building a Nucast kit. Your Clayton project looks amazing (and to think I was very near Shipley, staying at Bradford for a show in the marvellous Alhambra 3 weeks ago and would have made some effort to contact the Shipley club had I been aware of its existence).

And thanks also robertcwp. Does your train formation knowledge extend to the names and numbers of the 7 coaches that made up the 1928 West Riding Pullman as listed without names and numbers in Steve Banks 'LNER Passenger Trains and Formations 1923-68'? (It is this I'm keen to portray as accurately as possible but rather think the Brake 1st should be a 12 wheeled coach, not one of the 8 wheel Pullman models I have - I'd be very grateful if you could clarify this too please).

Graeme Leary
New Zealand

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by JASd17 » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:16 am

Graeme,

The Clayton project will be building the Halifax portion of the West Riding/Yorkshire Pullman, this comprised two twelve-wheel Pullman Cars a Third Class Kitchen/Parlour (e.g. Nos.44 and 42) and the Brake First you mention (e.g. Catania and Cambria).

What is remarkable about this is that for several years the LNER Carriage Working Books insisted that the Third Class Car was an 8-wheel type, not so.

I can also confirm that Robert is correct about Restaurant set 1419-21, withdrawn at the end of 1947.

John

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by Dave » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:36 am

Robert.

Make that 2 I've read your article too.

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by Graeme Leary » Mon Oct 02, 2017 8:05 pm

John,

Many thanks 'again' but due to the 10 x 8 wheel coach models I already have I'm wondering if I should change my thinking and model the set shown in Steven Banks 'LNER Passenger Trains and Formations' on p177, ie the 1932 set hauled by C1 4444. Would you know/be able to identify the coaches (including names and/or numbers; matchwood or all steel and number of wheels) on this particular formation.
This 1932 set also has 'appeal' as (a) the photo seems to show 7 coaches, which fit neatly into my station length limitations and (b) I have a West Riding Pullman loco headboard to fix to my C1 model and this gives photographic proof.


However, if I swallow hard and purchase a number of 12 wheel coaches there are 3 other related queries if you can confirm/clarify (and both with regards to the 1928 formation Steve Banks notes)-

(1) Were all the coaches you list 'matchwood' type or some the all-steel cars (K class??)
(b) Steve Banks 1928 set makes no mention of Parlour cars (listing 5 Kitchen cars and the 2 Brakes) - assume this is correct (as I
assume Parlours and Kitchens were 2 distinct types of coaches anyway).
(c) Therefore this 1928 set of 7 would have had 4 x 12 wheel coaches (Nos 42 & 44, and the 2 Brakes either 'Catania' or 'Cambria'
as Brakes 1st and 1 other as a Brake 3rd and, if correct, what may this have been numbered? Notes I have don't extend
to Brake 3rds, as included in Steve Banks 1928 list.

Regarding likely loco for the 1928 set - would a C1 still be rostered for this or more likely some other class (and would the WRP loco headboard have come into regular use at that earlier date?)

Very much appreciate any further light you can throw on this John or anyone who can fill the gaps in for me.

Graeme Leary'
New Zealand

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Re: West Riding Pullman Coach types, names and/or numbers

Post by robertcwp » Mon Oct 02, 2017 10:02 pm

Graeme Leary wrote:
Mon Oct 02, 2017 5:18 am


And thanks also robertcwp. Does your train formation knowledge extend to the names and numbers of the 7 coaches that made up the 1928 West Riding Pullman as listed without names and numbers in Steve Banks 'LNER Passenger Trains and Formations 1923-68'? (It is this I'm keen to portray as accurately as possible but rather think the Brake 1st should be a 12 wheeled coach, not one of the 8 wheel Pullman models I have - I'd be very grateful if you could clarify this too please).
Sorry, I don't have any more information on the cars used.

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