Raven H1s -fittings?

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markindurham
LNER J39 0-6-0
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Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by markindurham » Sat Apr 01, 2017 1:11 pm

I'm presently making a 4mm scale model of these locos, but am puzzled by the fittings seen in the photos on this page

https://www.lner.info/locos/H/h1.php

between the Westinghouse pump and the side tank, level with the top of the smokebox saddle. I don't remember seeing them on photos of these locos after rebuilding into A8s either. Can anyone advise what they were please?

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tomburnham
LNER J94 0-6-0ST Austerity
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Re: Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by tomburnham » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:05 pm

I believe what you are referring to is the steam reversing gear and associated pipework which was a standard fitting on the NER Class D and was retained when the class was rebuilt as the LNER A8. On other NER classes the steam reversing gear was hidden away between the frames but on the Class D it was quite a prominent feature.

Tom.

markindurham
LNER J39 0-6-0
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Re: Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by markindurham » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:11 pm

Ah, thank you, Tom. That makes sense. Must see if I can find some better photographs now :)

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tomburnham
LNER J94 0-6-0ST Austerity
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Re: Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by tomburnham » Sat Apr 01, 2017 5:58 pm

There's a very clear reproduction of the official NER photograph of the Class D in works grey in Ken Hoole's book An Illustrated History of NER Locomotives that shows the steam reversing gear in detail. There is also a photograph in the book of the gear removed from the NELPG's Q6 during servicing which you may also find to be useful.
If you are a member of the North Eastern Railway Association copies of plans and photographs of the class can be e-mailed to you free of charge. Any enquiries should be directed to archivist@ner.org.uk .

Cheers,
Tom.

markindurham
LNER J39 0-6-0
Posts: 158
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Re: Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by markindurham » Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:20 pm

Thanks again, Tom. I am indeed a member of NERA - an email is called for :)

I'm actually away from the UK, working at sea, so can't access my own books at home - hopefully the archivist can assist :)

Best
Mark

drmditch
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Re: Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by drmditch » Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:27 pm

I haven't double checked this, but I think that when they were re-built to 4-6-2s they were converted to left-hand drive, and the steam reversing gear was removed.

I also think that although the conversions are usually attributed to HNG, they were actually proposed by Mr Stamer. The A8s were a true Darlington project, albeit perhaps after experience with the A5s on similar duties.

markindurham
LNER J39 0-6-0
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Re: Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by markindurham » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:43 am

drmditch wrote:
Sun Apr 02, 2017 9:27 pm
I haven't double checked this, but I think that when they were re-built to 4-6-2s they were converted to left-hand drive, and the steam reversing gear was removed.

I also think that although the conversions are usually attributed to HNG, they were actually proposed by Mr Stamer. The A8s were a true Darlington project, albeit perhaps after experience with the A5s on similar duties.
The thinking about the reversing gear may well be true - as both the H1 and A8 versions of the DJH kit contain a part to represent a reversing lever. It's part 28 on the H1 instructions; I hadn't fitted it yet anyway, which is good. Perhaps the A8 was released first, then someone realised that a 'new' kit could be released for very little extra effort - effectively just a slightly modified set of frames and rear wheels - and simply copied the body instructions. That would make sense.

The second point is also interesting - a similar thing occurred on the LMS with the small fleet of Midland design 0-4-4Ts built in the early 30s. (The 64xx - renumbered 19xx when the Ivatt Class 2 2-6-0s came into service). They were authorised, iirc, by Lemon whilst he was covering the CME's role between Fowler and Stanier being in office, but as they emerged after Stanier had been appointed, they're often credited to him, simply because he was the CME at the time.

Mark

markindurham
LNER J39 0-6-0
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Re: Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by markindurham » Mon Apr 03, 2017 5:44 am

markindurham wrote:
Sat Apr 01, 2017 10:20 pm
Thanks again, Tom. I am indeed a member of NERA - an email is called for :)

I'm actually away from the UK, working at sea, so can't access my own books at home - hopefully the archivist can assist :)

Best
Mark
I had a reply from Richard - he's going to look into it for me. Your name was mentioned, Tom, as a 'go to' person, so expect a call!

Best
Mark

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ArthurK
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Re: Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by ArthurK » Mon Apr 03, 2017 2:55 pm

When the H1s were converted to 4-6-2T class A8 the steam reverse gear was replaced by screw reverse. They were converted left hand drive at the same time.

ArthurK

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tomburnham
LNER J94 0-6-0ST Austerity
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Re: Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by tomburnham » Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:45 pm

Mark,
I will be attending the NERA Archive at Darlington tomorrow and will see Richard there. There are a couple of General Arrangement drawings listed that should be useful and we may be able to find some photographs showing the steam reversing gear.
Regards,
Tom.

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ArthurK
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Re: Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by ArthurK » Mon Apr 03, 2017 8:03 pm

My information came from the GAs from the NRM. These drawings make the situation for the A8s quite clear.

Arthur

JASd17
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
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Re: Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by JASd17 » Mon Apr 03, 2017 9:56 pm

Arthur,

You were missed at Scalefour North.

John

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ArthurK
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Re: Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by ArthurK » Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:21 pm

I'm afraid I was unable to make it to Wakefield this year. I am not as mobile as I was.

Mark
Returning to the theme of this thread I now realise that you are building the original 4-4-4 version which is why you are keen to know more about the details of the steam reverse gear. I may be able to help there as I have the steam cylinders amongst my range of brass castings. They were used in my Q5 kit.
CAK03.jpg
Arthur K

markindurham
LNER J39 0-6-0
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Re: Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by markindurham » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:34 am

tomburnham wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2017 6:45 pm
Mark,
I will be attending the NERA Archive at Darlington tomorrow and will see Richard there. There are a couple of General Arrangement drawings listed that should be useful and we may be able to find some photographs showing the steam reversing gear.
Regards,
Tom.
Hi Tom

Many thanks. Much appreciated.

Best
Mark

markindurham
LNER J39 0-6-0
Posts: 158
Joined: Tue Mar 27, 2012 9:38 am

Re: Raven H1s -fittings?

Post by markindurham » Tue Apr 04, 2017 7:37 am

ArthurK wrote:
Mon Apr 03, 2017 11:21 pm
I'm afraid I was unable to make it to Wakefield this year. I am not as mobile as I was.

Mark
Returning to the theme of this thread I now realise that you are building the original 4-4-4 version which is why you are keen to know more about the details of the steam reverse gear. I may be able to help there as I have the steam cylinders amongst my range of brass castings. They were used in my Q5 kit.

CAK03.jpg

Arthur K
Hello Arthur

Sorry to hear of your mobility issues :(

Thank you for coming up on here and confirming the reverser details for the H1s and A8s - it's much appreciated.

I'll email you regarding your castings at some point today, my duties on board permitting.

Best
Mark

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