"Road van" meaning

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Tanya
GNR J52 0-6-0T
Posts: 23
Joined: Sun May 16, 2010 3:27 am

"Road van" meaning

Post by Tanya » Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:36 pm

A question has arisen on the BRcoaches list as to the meaning of "road van" on the GCR/LNER, specifically in a Classification of Goods etc quoted in Travis, Lamb and Jenkinson's Practical railway Working -
IMG_20170408_012456410_HDR rs.jpg
Burtt,an NER man, has a pretty clear idea of what road van means in his Principals of Freight Train Operation pp173-4
http://tinyurl.com/m4fk35a
We have mentioned road-vans –– "roaders" they are sometimes called in the South of England or "peddle cars" in the expressive language of our railway confreres on the other side of the Atlantic. These are the wagons which pick up and set down at the wayside stations on a branch line at each of which the goods traffic to be dealt with daily can be but small, and where a road-van is employed to work to and from a more important station to collect, in the case of forwarded traffic, the small consignments so as to work them into the more important streams of traffic out of which loads of a more favourable character can be obtained. These more important stations will usually be themselves subtranship stations ; and all the road-vans and the branch
lines they work will themselves be listed, catalogued and classified in regard to the tranship stations to or from which they work ; and such road-van list will be circulated
all over the country for the information of all officials throughout Great Britain who are themselves engaged in traffic working.
Q: Burtt was an NER man; was Burtt's understanding of the term "road van" universal to the LNER group? It certainly wasn't universal to the whole British system, but was it used in other ways on other companies?

Tanya
Miss Tanya Jane Jackson

HMRS British Rail carriage steward
www.hmrs.org.uk

Hatfield Shed
LNER P2 2-8-2
Posts: 940
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:34 pm

Re: "Road van" meaning

Post by Hatfield Shed » Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:01 pm

Worth an enquiry with Peter Tatlow, given the research he has undertaken and published, to see if the term 'Road Van' appears in any of the other LNER constituent's build lists, and the LNER's list; the latter doesn't include a 'Road Van' classification as far as I can see.

From his published work, the GER acquired some surplus WD Road Vans of LSWR design, but (probably) sealed the double doors and used them as conventional brake vans.

The GNR has a 'Tranship Goods Brake Van' described. This has double doors to a compartment for conveying small loads to intermediate stations, according to the caption for the illustration. Same animal as a Road Van, different title.

drmditch
NER C7 4-4-2
Posts: 861
Joined: Sun Aug 01, 2010 5:55 pm
Location: Durham

Re: "Road van" meaning

Post by drmditch » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:13 pm

Hatfield Shed wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:01 pm
The GNR has a 'Tranship Goods Brake Van' described. This has double doors to a compartment for conveying small loads to intermediate stations, according to the caption for the illustration. Same animal as a Road Van, different title.
Not sure that is correct, at least as far as the NER is concerned. I am sure that I have seen a discussion on this issue somewhere, perhaps even on this forum.

Mr Tatlow's definition (Vol 2 Page 81) is (abbreviated) :-

Road Vans were used to transport a number of small items between intermediate stations. They would be attached to a pick-up goods train.
NER built examples (G4) had two sets of doors on each side.

Tranship Vans were used between main distribution centres.
NER built examples (G6) had a single set of doors per side.

I think there may be more in NER Express. I will add this to me 'browsing list' !

john coffin
GNR C1 4-4-2
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Re: "Road van" meaning

Post by john coffin » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:23 am

Referring again to the GNRS series of wagon and van books originally produced by Terry Henderson, vol 5 has pictures of two
"road vans"

One GNR covered road van is 2669 which is a horse drawn 4 wheel vehicle with the canvas "tilt" and used to move stuff from Bread Street
collection point to Kings Cross goods.

another is 1080 an open vehicle with no tilt

there are also some light parcels vans including a GNR /LNWR joint collection Delivery van

paul

swhite01
NBR J36 0-6-0
Posts: 124
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:11 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: "Road van" meaning

Post by swhite01 » Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:54 am

The LNER appear to have produced a series of documents with loadings and operations per operating section. I have seen 2 copies of the document 1934 GE Section and 1938 Western Section/Southern Area and have attached some photos. One happened to be the 1938 Western section document so I have included the London Marylebone to New Holland working page.

As mentioned above there was a thread on this subject and from memory it started with some images of NER MCV? vehicles in the background of a photo in another thread. I have searched on this Forum and cannot find the thread so it may be on RMweb. Again from memory I think it was around 2015.

I hope the attached are of interest.... and they have attached !

Steve

www.gnrsociety.com
Attachments
LNER Great Eastern Section January 1934 Working of Road Vans Cover.jpg
LNER Great Eastern Section January 1934 Working of Road Vans General Instructions.jpg
LNER Western Sect 1938 Working of Road Vans Cover.jpg
LNER Western Sect 1938 Working of Road Vans Marylebone New Holland.jpg

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