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"Road van" meaning

Posted: Sun Apr 09, 2017 6:36 pm
by Tanya
A question has arisen on the BRcoaches list as to the meaning of "road van" on the GCR/LNER, specifically in a Classification of Goods etc quoted in Travis, Lamb and Jenkinson's Practical railway Working -
IMG_20170408_012456410_HDR rs.jpg
Burtt,an NER man, has a pretty clear idea of what road van means in his Principals of Freight Train Operation pp173-4
We have mentioned road-vans –– "roaders" they are sometimes called in the South of England or "peddle cars" in the expressive language of our railway confreres on the other side of the Atlantic. These are the wagons which pick up and set down at the wayside stations on a branch line at each of which the goods traffic to be dealt with daily can be but small, and where a road-van is employed to work to and from a more important station to collect, in the case of forwarded traffic, the small consignments so as to work them into the more important streams of traffic out of which loads of a more favourable character can be obtained. These more important stations will usually be themselves subtranship stations ; and all the road-vans and the branch
lines they work will themselves be listed, catalogued and classified in regard to the tranship stations to or from which they work ; and such road-van list will be circulated
all over the country for the information of all officials throughout Great Britain who are themselves engaged in traffic working.
Q: Burtt was an NER man; was Burtt's understanding of the term "road van" universal to the LNER group? It certainly wasn't universal to the whole British system, but was it used in other ways on other companies?


Re: "Road van" meaning

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:01 pm
by Hatfield Shed
Worth an enquiry with Peter Tatlow, given the research he has undertaken and published, to see if the term 'Road Van' appears in any of the other LNER constituent's build lists, and the LNER's list; the latter doesn't include a 'Road Van' classification as far as I can see.

From his published work, the GER acquired some surplus WD Road Vans of LSWR design, but (probably) sealed the double doors and used them as conventional brake vans.

The GNR has a 'Tranship Goods Brake Van' described. This has double doors to a compartment for conveying small loads to intermediate stations, according to the caption for the illustration. Same animal as a Road Van, different title.

Re: "Road van" meaning

Posted: Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:13 pm
by drmditch
Hatfield Shed wrote:
Tue Apr 11, 2017 12:01 pm
The GNR has a 'Tranship Goods Brake Van' described. This has double doors to a compartment for conveying small loads to intermediate stations, according to the caption for the illustration. Same animal as a Road Van, different title.
Not sure that is correct, at least as far as the NER is concerned. I am sure that I have seen a discussion on this issue somewhere, perhaps even on this forum.

Mr Tatlow's definition (Vol 2 Page 81) is (abbreviated) :-

Road Vans were used to transport a number of small items between intermediate stations. They would be attached to a pick-up goods train.
NER built examples (G4) had two sets of doors on each side.

Tranship Vans were used between main distribution centres.
NER built examples (G6) had a single set of doors per side.

I think there may be more in NER Express. I will add this to me 'browsing list' !

Re: "Road van" meaning

Posted: Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:23 am
by john coffin
Referring again to the GNRS series of wagon and van books originally produced by Terry Henderson, vol 5 has pictures of two
"road vans"

One GNR covered road van is 2669 which is a horse drawn 4 wheel vehicle with the canvas "tilt" and used to move stuff from Bread Street
collection point to Kings Cross goods.

another is 1080 an open vehicle with no tilt

there are also some light parcels vans including a GNR /LNWR joint collection Delivery van


Re: "Road van" meaning

Posted: Sat Apr 15, 2017 10:54 am
by swhite01
The LNER appear to have produced a series of documents with loadings and operations per operating section. I have seen 2 copies of the document 1934 GE Section and 1938 Western Section/Southern Area and have attached some photos. One happened to be the 1938 Western section document so I have included the London Marylebone to New Holland working page.

As mentioned above there was a thread on this subject and from memory it started with some images of NER MCV? vehicles in the background of a photo in another thread. I have searched on this Forum and cannot find the thread so it may be on RMweb. Again from memory I think it was around 2015.

I hope the attached are of interest.... and they have attached !