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Carriage Numbering under LNER

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 2:00 pm
by Crews hill
I wonder if someone might be able to help or point me in the right direction.
I am trying to understand the process of renumbering of coaches that were transferred from the constituent parts of the LNER prior to the Grouping in 1923.It appears to me that if a carriage was transferred lets say from the NER to the GER it was allotted a new number in the GER range. Once the grouping took place the carriage number was changed by adding a 6 for the GE area. An example is that GE Dia 203e was in fact to NER 74 and and that numbers were allotted in the range of 63950+ on the GE section of the LNER.
Can anyone advise if there is a document that will detail this sort of information and confirm the original number NE section and the new number GE Section.
Many thanks in advance for any help received.

Re: Carriage Numbering under LNER

Posted: Sun Apr 16, 2017 6:11 pm
by jwealleans
Specifically for carriages cascaded from the NE section to the GE, article by Clive Carter in British Railway Journal, Issue 12 (1986).

Re: Carriage Numbering under LNER

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:29 am
by 65447
I may be misunderstanding the question but how, and why, would stock be transferred between companies PRIOR to Grouping? Your question makes sense only for those transfers effected after Grouping, and which in the case cited were of new construction to a modified NE design built for the GE Section and Scottish Area and numbered in the recipient's systems.

GE stock coincidentally underwent a renumbering at the same time as Grouping whilst the addition of, in the case of the GE Section, the 6 prefix came several years later along with the use of a numeric prefix for the other Areas/Sections; before then a suffix letter was applied.

Re: Carriage Numbering under LNER

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:52 pm
by Hatfield Shed
65447 wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:29 am
I may be misunderstanding the question but how, and why, would stock be transferred between companies PRIOR to Grouping? ...
Applicable to the East Coast Joint Stock, which was a joint enterprise between the GNR, NBR and NER. Vehicles being displaced from ECJS service were redeployed into the joint owner's carriage stock. There's a Ken Hoole book on the subject, to which I don't currently have access as it is holidaying with a friend in Devon...

Re: Carriage Numbering under LNER

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:48 pm
by 65447
Hatfield Shed wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 12:52 pm
65447 wrote:
Mon Apr 17, 2017 8:29 am
I may be misunderstanding the question but how, and why, would stock be transferred between companies PRIOR to Grouping? ...
Applicable to the East Coast Joint Stock, which was a joint enterprise between the GNR, NBR and NER. Vehicles being displaced from ECJS service were redeployed into the joint owner's carriage stock. There's a Ken Hoole book on the subject, to which I don't currently have access as it is holidaying with a friend in Devon...
Being pedantic too, that's a transfer from joint to a single member company ownership within the same joint structure, and sometimes the opposite way around. There's also the GN & NE Joint Stock - but neither of those is the subject of the question, which is specifically NER to GER.

Re: Carriage Numbering under LNER

Posted: Mon Apr 17, 2017 1:57 pm
by Crews hill
May I thank the people that have responded so far.
I will certainly look up the article in British Railway Journal mentioned. Thanks
On looking at my mail again I have probably used the term "prior to the grouping" in error. My interest is in any pre grouping stock that was transferred within the areas of the LNER.
An example of the sort of query I have is there is a picture on P Bartlett's photo site of a NER non corridor BT carriage with a Great Northern area no 43246.
This appears to me to be to NER Dia 132 but without the original number I have no way of confirming this.
Thanks again for any replies. I do appreciate the time and effort posters have made.
Regards

Re: Carriage Numbering under LNER

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:06 am
by JASd17
Five Diagram 132 (BT,6) carriages were transferred to the GN Section, 43246 as it became, was amongst them.

John

Re: Carriage Numbering under LNER

Posted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 9:02 pm
by Crews hill
JASd17
Thanks for the reply.
I notice that there were 6 Dia 132 built. Do you know which one did not get transferred ?
The number 43246 quoted on P Bartlett site I think is wrong and should be 43240. 43246 in K Hoole's EC Joint Stock book is quoted as ECJS no 310 to dia 76.
Can you help with any other general carriage designs (not ECJS/GNNE) that were transferred into the GN number range?
Thanks in advance.

Re: Carriage Numbering under LNER

Posted: Wed Apr 19, 2017 10:45 pm
by JASd17
This might be quite a complicated query.

It may depend on when as well as what. It is possible for two entirely different GN Section carriages to have that number, at different times.

I shall see what I can find.

John

Re: Carriage Numbering under LNER

Posted: Fri Apr 28, 2017 2:44 pm
by Crews hill
I now have a copy of British Railway Journal no 12 in my possession along with others with articles on NER (issue 34) and M and GN stock (issue46).
However although there is detail about transfers there does not seem to be much information on the original NER numbers of transferred vehicles to the GN and GE sections.
Apart from Search Engine at the NRM is there any other source worth trying.
Thanks in advance