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Cheshire lines

Posted: Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:49 am
by Griff
I'm trying to find out what locos and carriage formations would have run along the Cheshire lines. I believe quite a few were LNER locos, so would that go the same for passenger stock?
There doesn't seem to much information out there, yet I've heard stories of A4 Pacific's and the like going into Livetpool.

Re: Cheshire lines

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:08 am
by Kestrel
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cheshire_Lines_Committee

There are several books devoted to the CLC. Have a book on ebay?

Re: Cheshire lines

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 1:36 pm
by kudu
Griff wrote:
Sun Apr 23, 2017 10:49 am
I'm trying to find out what locos and carriage formations would have run along the Cheshire lines. I believe quite a few were LNER locos, so would that go the same for passenger stock?
There doesn't seem to much information out there, yet I've heard stories of A4 Pacific's and the like going into Livetpool.
The LNER inherited the GC's repsonsibility to provide the motive power for the CLC. But no doubt running powers would have bought LMS locos onto parts of the system. As for A4s, maybe they are just stories. You can look at the allocations of individual CLC sheds.

I'd be interested to know the answer on passenger stock, but would be very surprised if this wasn't also LNER, though again no doubt LMS carriages penetrated the system. Sorry I don't know the details myself.

Kudu

Re: Cheshire lines

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 4:35 pm
by Griff
Thanks for the replies, I've ordered a couple of books but it seems theirs not much info on the line compaired to others which I find surprising as it was an important line.

Re: Cheshire lines

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 6:28 pm
by drmditch
Almost all of the the standard works on LNER rolling stock (RCTS History for Locomotives, Peter Tatlow for goods vehicles, various other publications for passenger and non-passenger rolling stock) have sections relating to the CLC. Obviously, you could find most detail about locomotives by looking up the ex-GC stock.

There are also several works about the GC which will help.

Sorry if this just gives you a multiplicity of sources, but I can't think of a just one book dedicated to the CLC

However, although I have never seen any reference to an A4 on CLC lines, then there was at least one interesting locomotive in early LNER days - .... see here...

Re: Cheshire lines

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 7:45 pm
by STAFFORDA4
I do recall seeing a published photo of 4488 Union of South Africa at Manchester Central pre-war. Not sure where but will investigate

Re: Cheshire lines

Posted: Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:11 pm
by STAFFORDA4
try this link for answers to a similar quest; hope it works

http://www.rmweb.co.uk/community/index. ... questions/

Re: Cheshire lines

Posted: Tue May 02, 2017 11:55 pm
by 9E
Hi Griff,

There is lots of information available on the CLC, but as some have said it is spread across a very wide range of books and other sources. You don't say what period you are interested or which of the CLC's routes you are interested in.

If the presence of Gresley pacifics is the sort of thing you are after then apart from Flying Scotsman's appearance at Manchester Central on a special in the 1960s then the 1930s are your best bet.

4498 spent 5 days at Manchester Central from 28 March 1938 along with various items of rolling stock as part of an exhibition of modern rolling stock. Otherwise A3s appeared on the Grand National specials during the 1930s with Pullmans from Kings Cross.

This information comes from The LMS and LNER in Manchester by R.E Rose. I'd recommend this book for a snapshot (in loco and train working terms) of the railway scene around Manchester including the CLC into Manchester. Otherwise try Niger Dyckhoff's two books on the CLC for a general overview.

If your interests are post-war then the character of the CLC changed massively after the LMR took over.

If you specify a route and period then you could be pointed to more relevant information.

As an example of the changes (and grossly simplifying), the Liverpool to Manchester expresses started the BR period mostly in the hands of D9 4-4-0s (which had taken over from the D6s). These soon gave way to a mixture of ex-LMS 2Ps and 4Ps, which were then augmented/replaced by D10s, then D11s and D16s over a short period before being mostly in the hands of Black 5s and Stanier/Fairburn 2-6-4Ts for several years before dieselisation.

I hope that is of interest.

Simon

Re: Cheshire lines

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 4:42 pm
by bw1165
It may be worth a mention that although the GC (and later LNER) provided the engines for internal CLC services, the Midland (in particular) provided locos for its own through trains. For example there was a Midland service from Liverpool to St Pancras that at one time had a "Spinner" on between Liverpool and (I think) Chinley.

One of my books has a photo which shows the end of a goods train near Northwich, and I was able to establish that the six-wheel brake at the back was a MR vehicle. So I presume from that that the MR/LMS topped and tailed its own goods trains to the Northwich area.

As to CLC coaching stock, it was a breed apart. Ideally you need a copy of the CLC diagram book for coaches, though from whence such a thing may be had I do not know. Sadly, the CLC falls between the stools of the line societies, and I believe there is no HMRS steward currently in post.

Re: Cheshire lines

Posted: Tue Aug 08, 2017 8:02 pm
by 65447
Stock built by the LNER for the CLC appears in Harris' LNER Standard Gresley Carriages, Mallard (self-published) which contains copies of the diagrams up to the mid-1930s. Some carriages had LNER equivalents, others were specifically to CLC requirements.