Toad brake vans

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Graeme Leary
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Toad brake vans

Post by Graeme Leary » Mon May 29, 2017 5:07 am

A quick look at Wikipedia mentions Toad brake vans only in the context of Great Western Railways. However, were they ever used on LNER or any of its predecessor constituent companies?
Graeme Leary
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jwealleans
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by jwealleans » Mon May 29, 2017 5:23 am

You need to be precise in your terminology here. TOAD was the telegraphic code for a brake van and most of the standard LNER types are known as 'Toad something'. The long wheelbase vans were Toad D, the new Parkside kit is a Toad E, etc.

I'm assuming you're referring to the GW single verandah type and in that case, I don't know of any which resembled that design although I'm fairly sure some of the constituent companies had single ended brake vans.
Last edited by jwealleans on Mon May 29, 2017 11:33 am, edited 1 time in total.

65447
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by 65447 » Mon May 29, 2017 9:09 am

Graeme,

It's a strange self-obsessive disease that GW types have spread that only THEIR brake vans are genuine Toads - maybe because they insist on being ribbet counters?

As JW states, TOAD was the telegraphic code for Goods Brake Vans and the LNER had several types, including an experimental concrete-bodied one. For photographs of the real thing check out Paul Bartlett's extensive photographic website: http://paulbartlett.zenfolio.com/lnerbrake and then ask for more specific information...

Hatfield Shed
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by Hatfield Shed » Mon May 29, 2017 2:56 pm

65447 wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 9:09 am
... a strange self-obsessive disease that GW types have ...
Brunellosis I believe.

neilgow
LNER J39 0-6-0
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by neilgow » Mon May 29, 2017 4:23 pm

This is what happens when you let a lad from Hull loose on a GWR Toad.

No 422 Swindon & Cricklade Rly.

Rgds

NG
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Rlangham
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by Rlangham » Mon May 29, 2017 8:42 pm

Some GWR Toads ended up on the NER post-WW1 to make up for shortages
Author of 'The North Eastern Railway in the First World War' - now available in paperback!

http://www.amazon.co.uk/North-Eastern-R ... 781554552/

Happy to help with anything relating to the railways in the First World War, just ask

Graeme Leary
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by Graeme Leary » Mon May 29, 2017 11:11 pm

Thanks all. The type I'm referring to is the Bachmann model 33-301F described on their box as '20 Ton TOAD Brake Van (BR Bauxite). I have this model and was going to try and research and then repaint in an appropriate LNER colour. The reference to GWR I've mentioned came up on Wikipedia so maybe this particular 'design' was not ever a LNER running van. Any clarification very helpful.
Graeme

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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by Trestrol » Tue May 30, 2017 8:14 am

GWR brake vans are dark and dingy things. As with most GWR things little thought of comfort for the staff.

65447
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by 65447 » Tue May 30, 2017 9:34 am

Graeme Leary wrote:
Mon May 29, 2017 11:11 pm
Thanks all. The type I'm referring to is the Bachmann model 33-301F described on their box as '20 Ton TOAD Brake Van (BR Bauxite). I have this model and was going to try and research and then repaint in an appropriate LNER colour. The reference to GWR I've mentioned came up on Wikipedia so maybe this particular 'design' was not ever a LNER running van. Any clarification very helpful.
Graeme
That is definitely a GWR brake van. It was unusual for them to work off the GWR so most unlikely to be seen on other company lines (except if on loan, see above, and I bet that was short-term only) but then that was the case with most goods workings, as the Guard was responsible for the train and needed to know the route. A typical Bachmann model would be 37-529B - in LNER finish in the current catalogue.

Graeme Leary
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by Graeme Leary » Tue May 30, 2017 9:59 pm

Thanks again all and will look for the Bachmann number quoted when in the UK in a couple of months. And now I have one very good condition GWR Brake van for sale (complete with the guard neatly fitted into under the canopy).
Graeme

Graeme Leary
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by Graeme Leary » Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:10 am

Greetings,

Back to this topic I originally posted a few months back.

I have just returned from the UK where I bought the Bachmann model number 37-529B quoted by 65447 but it seems to differ from a couple of 2nd hand models (long wheelbase) also bought, in that it has the vacuum brake gear (I presume it is) at the edges of each 'platform' ie outside the bodywork whereas the older 2nd models (Lima's) do not.

Nor does Paul Bartlett's photo - his bottom right shot - of the same style (Toad D??) seem to show this either and it makes me wonder if the Bachmann model represents a more recent vintage than the Grouping era which I'm particularly interested in. (Or is it possible Lima's model should have included this 'feature' but did not)?

Many thanks.

Graeme

Trestrol
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by Trestrol » Mon Sep 25, 2017 8:08 am

LNER Toad D were vacuum fitted and I assume you are referring to the upright vacuum pipe on the drawbar. You have to remember that lots of Paul Bartlett's photos were taken in BR days. BR did not like vacuum fitted brake vans and prefered them to be unfitted or through piped with a brake application valve. They probably removed the brake gear to leave it either through piped or unfitted. I can remember looking at a early BR built but LNER Toad D order in the 1990s. This had the recess underneath for the vacuum cylinder and all the fixing holes for its hanger brackets. But these had been removed as you could see how thin the paint was around the holes. This left it as through piped only. So I wouldn't worry about the vacuum pipes. It also sill had the two lower lamp irons on the verander shield. Can anybody explain why there was two or sometimes three brackets on this shield?

Pennine MC
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by Pennine MC » Mon Sep 25, 2017 1:22 pm

Graeme Leary wrote:
Mon Sep 25, 2017 4:10 am
. (Or is it possible Lima's model should have included this 'feature' but did not)?
Very! Lima stuff is generally very well moulded, but short on detail.

Graeme Leary
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by Graeme Leary » Mon Sep 25, 2017 9:01 pm

Thanks Tretrol and PennineMC. This would suggest for LNER accuracy pre BR I should fit vacuum pipes to the 3 or 4 2nd hand Lima brake vans I have (and I somewhere have acquired a few pair of these)
.
Also, assuming I have the terminology correct (that lamp irons are what the lamps are fitted to) I might have to look more closely at the other point you raise ie the number of lamp irons on the verandah shield (and I assume the 'shield' is the flat panel shaped and fitted under the roof with a square edge about head height). These Lima models I have have lamp irons on each of the corner posts and I probably thought these were where the lamps were usually positioned.

Ah, the intracaces of this hobby!

Graeme
NZ

Trestrol
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by Trestrol » Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:22 am

The verander shield is where the bottom tail lamp is fitted not the two side lamps up a hieght on the corner posts. By the way these top lamps are only fitted when on an unfitted train and show white lights. If your modelling the "Green Arrow" fast freight service then they wouldn't be fitted.

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