Toad brake vans

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LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by StevieG » Tue Sep 26, 2017 9:09 pm

Tue Sep 26, 2017 7:22 am
" .... By the way these top lamps are only fitted when on an unfitted train and show white lights. .... "
In case some detailed operating information is of interest to anyone, may I say that, although I can't speak with authority on brake van vehicle characteristics, from participation in signalling in the late 1960s, AFAIR, partially-fitted trains also carried side-lights ; 'unfitted' referring to trains which had no braked vehicles at all apart from manned brake vans.

And also that, side-lights were to show white lights forward, but in my area at least (where the old Rule 120 applied without amendment), the colours that they were required to show to the rear were not so simple, having to be changed en route by the guard if / when necessary. : -

- On Main, Fast and Single lines both sidelights were to show red to the rear.
- If there was one additional running line in the same direction (e.g. Slow, Relief, Goods lines) when running on it, the train's side-lamp nearest the Main / Fast line was to show white rearwards; the other one to remain red.
- If on a third line in the same direction (or a fifth, etc.), it was back to both side-lamps being red.
- if on a fourth line (or sixth, etc.) it was again to be as for the second line; one white, one red.

I believe, over time, that while some brake van side-light lamp brackets were able to swivel, thus catering for lamps which showed their red and white colours in different directions; other side-lamps did not need to be swivelled because although they always displayed white, they also had a slot into which a red 'slide' could be inserted to provide the required colour flexibility.

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Graeme Leary
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by Graeme Leary » Wed Sep 27, 2017 3:41 am

Thanks again Trestrol. My most likely goods trains will be a rake of about 15/20 coal wagons; 8 -10 double bogie bolster wagons and another of closed wagons, pulled by any/all of the following loco models I have: - O4, O6, B1, B17, D11, D16, D49, J11, V2 (not Green Arrow but 'The Snapper' or 'The Coldstreamer) and even one of my A1/3s (Great Northern, Flying Scotsman, Royal Lancer and Flamingo - if correct for that type of goods train in that Grouping era; to be 'researched')

Also StevieG - many thanks. So much info to digest.


NER Y7 0-4-0T
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Re: Toad brake vans

Post by GrandParade » Mon Jan 22, 2018 6:39 pm

So did only the GWR and LNER use the term "Toad" (with or without letter suffix) to denote a GBV? My understanding is that by the 1920s all the railways were using TOAD as a telegraphic code, though it was the GWR that first came up with it. Though I could be wrong here!
GWR - Gresley was Right!

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