Tank wagon trains

This forum is for the discussion of the locomotives, motive power, and rolling stock of the LNER and its constituent companies.

Moderators: 52D, Rlangham, richard, Tom F, Atlantic 3279, Colombo, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun

Post Reply
Graeme Leary
GCR D11 4-4-0 'Improved Director'
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Tank wagon trains

Post by Graeme Leary » Sun Nov 26, 2017 5:15 am

I have either read or been told (some time back) that during the Grouping period tank trains - which I presume covers everything from petrol, oil, possibly even tarmac, but that could be unlikely - were only ever made up of one brand of the particular product and different brands of tankers were not mixed. (My local expert - from Yorkshire - says that in his youth in 50s and 60s there were often 'mixed' tank trains but accepts this single brand may have been the case during the Grouping).

I also understand that such tank trains always had a 'non-tank' product wagon (maybe 2 or more?) between the loco/tender and the tank wagons. If this is correct what would a typical example have been?

Many thanks,
Graeme Leary
New Zealand

Hatfield Shed
GNR C1 4-4-2
Posts: 799
Joined: Fri Dec 23, 2011 3:34 pm

Re: Tank wagon trains

Post by Hatfield Shed » Sun Nov 26, 2017 10:42 am

Photographs of tankers in trains in the steam period are rarities. The two I have seen one had a barrier wagon group serving as a fitted head made of half a dozen highfits, so deliberately marshalled; the other the short cut of tanks are so far down the train that they cannot be identified, and the 'barrier wagons' are a general mixture of opens, vans and minerals (probably a 'pick up' goods).

53C
LNER J94 0-6-0ST Austerity
Posts: 43
Joined: Fri Feb 03, 2012 5:36 pm

Re: Tank wagon trains

Post by 53C » Sun Nov 26, 2017 9:03 pm

Living for some years in the 50/60's close to the Hull Docks overhead freight line. The docks and Saltend bound freights were
seen on a regular basis. The Docks were served by a mix of WD's in the main with a couple of J 39's .They seemed to be running 24 hours a day six days a week. They were heard during the night even New Years eve etc.
The Saltend tank trains from memory as said above were two or three vans behind the tender and the same at the
guards van end. Tanks could be in groups and made up from more than one brand. Shell , BP in the main with some
Esso marked tanks. Eastbound with empties and the loaded on the Westbound trains.
More details and loading was not known to people living near the line. Hope that helps.?

Graeme Leary
GCR D11 4-4-0 'Improved Director'
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Tank wagon trains

Post by Graeme Leary » Mon Nov 27, 2017 2:46 am

Many thanks Hatfield Shed and 53C - definitely of help and not sure where I picked up the 'misinformation' that tank wagon trains were only ever of one brand of product. Highly unlikely on reflection.
Graeme

Caledonian
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:34 pm
Location: South Gosforth LNER but Aberdeen (Kitty) originally

Re: Tank wagon trains

Post by Caledonian » Tue Dec 05, 2017 11:19 pm

I'm not sure about "highly unlikely", because its really a question of where the tanks are coming from and where they are going to and why are they formed in a block train. During the First World War block coal trains ran north to Rosyth displaying a variety of owners and in the Second World War I presume that the same variety would have been displayed on tanks of bunker fuel, but for ordinary domestic purposes its worth remembering that tank wagons were company owned and not pooled.

As far as barrier wagons were concerned, they were only required for light [and therefore highly flammable] fuels, eg: petrol and aviation spirit. Heavy fuels, such as bunker oil were reckoned to be safe and didn't require barriers.
Stuart

A fool is a person who makes false conclusions from right principles; whereas a madman, on the contrary, draws right conclusions from wrong principles [Encyclopedia Britannica 1797]

User avatar
manna
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3058
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 12:56 am
Location: Booborowie. S. Aust

Re: Tank wagon trains

Post by manna » Thu Dec 07, 2017 8:48 pm

G'Day Gents

There was one type of tank wagon that did usually run as a single owner 'train' and that would be 'Milk', that was usually all ' United Dairies' or Express Dairies' there may be smaller independent dairies, but they would normally be very local.

manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.

Graeme Leary
GCR D11 4-4-0 'Improved Director'
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Tank wagon trains

Post by Graeme Leary » Fri Dec 08, 2017 10:36 pm

Thanks Caledonia and Manna - 'more grist to the mill' to help my (sometimes) futile attempt at accuracy.

(And did enjoy the reference to 'fools and madmen' - sometimes qualify on both counts!)

Graeme

Caledonian
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 130
Joined: Thu Jan 01, 2009 5:34 pm
Location: South Gosforth LNER but Aberdeen (Kitty) originally

Re: Tank wagon trains

Post by Caledonian » Sun Dec 10, 2017 11:10 pm

Glad you liked it - as you'll see I've been inspired to hunt for the correct words
Stuart

A fool is a person who makes false conclusions from right principles; whereas a madman, on the contrary, draws right conclusions from wrong principles [Encyclopedia Britannica 1797]

Graeme Leary
GCR D11 4-4-0 'Improved Director'
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Tank wagon trains

Post by Graeme Leary » Mon Dec 11, 2017 8:02 pm

Excellent Stuart, but in this day and age, what is (or who owns) an 'Encyclopaedia Brittanica'?
Graeme

2512silverfox
NER C7 4-4-2
Posts: 803
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:46 pm
Location: Colchester, Essex

Re: Tank wagon trains

Post by 2512silverfox » Wed Dec 13, 2017 9:32 am

The Internet?

Graeme Leary
GCR D11 4-4-0 'Improved Director'
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Tank wagon trains

Post by Graeme Leary » Wed Dec 13, 2017 10:31 pm

Yes 2512/silverfox , as frequently used by me, but for a dreadful moment there I was worrying that I had got rid of my Encyclopaedia Brittanicas too soon (but on 2nd thoughts maybe they're still around keeping uneven items of furniture nice and level).

2512silverfox
NER C7 4-4-2
Posts: 803
Joined: Thu Dec 10, 2009 7:46 pm
Location: Colchester, Essex

Re: Tank wagon trains

Post by 2512silverfox » Thu Dec 14, 2017 3:47 pm

Probably well out of date! May even show NZ as being on the edge of the flat earth?

Dave
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:33 pm
Location: Centre of the known universe York

Re: Tank wagon trains

Post by Dave » Thu Dec 14, 2017 4:31 pm

I hope you are right 2512silverfox, I thought it had dropped of the edge years ago.

Graeme Leary
GCR D11 4-4-0 'Improved Director'
Posts: 484
Joined: Fri Oct 28, 2011 9:43 pm

Re: Tank wagon trains

Post by Graeme Leary » Sat Dec 16, 2017 3:48 am

No, still taking up space in the Southern Hemisphere - and some inhabitants prone to asking (endless) naff questions.

Graeme

Dave
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
Posts: 1131
Joined: Sat Nov 13, 2010 9:33 pm
Location: Centre of the known universe York

Re: Tank wagon trains

Post by Dave » Mon Dec 18, 2017 11:06 am

Not naff, your questions provide some very interesting answers, from which we all learn.

Post Reply