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C1 Atlantic 4419 - Booster engine fitted Loco -More queries

Posted: Fri May 25, 2018 3:04 pm
by Robpulham
Good afternoon knowledgeable members,

In my loco kit stash I have an Ace kit for a C1 Atlantic which I plan to build as 4419 when fitted with the booster engine, Gresley cab etc. due to the modifications that I need to make to the kit I may as well go the whole hog and add inside motion.

According to RCTS Part 3A 1419 as was was a standard superheated 4 cylinder engine Further info gleaned from OS Nock's GNR Atlantics book has the cylinders as 20" x 24" which are shown in the chart in CTS Part 3A (page 8) as Stephenson with 8" piston valves.

What I am trying to determine with this post is what type of Stephensons motion are we talking - single slide bar, 4 bar etc.?

I do have several GA's but I am struggling to interpret them. My interpretation is that it's single slide bar with what looks like a curved connecting rod that passes over the front axle but I would appreciate it of someone could confirm that for me.

I would also appreciate it if someone could point me at a reasonable drawing of how it all fits together. I have found the Wikipedia drawing but it doesn't appear to have slide bars only valve guides.

Many thanks for any assistance you can offer.

Re: C1 Atlantic 4419 - Booster engine fitted Loco -More queries

Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 2:38 pm
by Robpulham
Hello all,

Further to my query above I have been scanning and enlarging the few photos in Yeadon of 1/4419 and this has given rise to a further query.

Does anyone know the lower wording and the size for the cab side plate? I interpret the lettering on the top curve to be:
L&NER
1419
But I have no idea what it might say below.

On the same note does anyone know if the plate was recast with 4419 on it once the number was changed? - photos that I have of 4419 show the plate but all are so far away as to just depict an oval
Cabside plate.JPG
Cabside plate.JPG (11.71 KiB) Viewed 1373 times
I have just had the plates below done by Narrow Planet and I would ,like to add some cabside plates too if I can get the wording and dimensions correct for the loco when numbered 4419.
Narrow Planet Works Plates.jpg
Narrow Planet Works Plates.jpg (80.27 KiB) Viewed 1373 times
Many thanks for any assistance you are able to offer

Re: C1 Atlantic 4419 - Booster engine fitted Loco -More queries

Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 2:52 pm
by Atlantic 3279
Robpulham wrote:
Fri May 25, 2018 3:04 pm
According to RCTS Part 3A 1419 as was was a standard superheated 4 cylinder engine
I believe that 2 cylinders were standard, unless you include the booster engine.

Re: C1 Atlantic 4419 - Booster engine fitted Loco -More queries

Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 3:15 pm
by Robpulham
Thanks Graeme,

The plot thickens, as I said initially I have a couple of C1 GA's (not of 1419/4419 unfortunately) that clearly show inside motion which appears to be single slide bar - the clearest bit of the drawings is the cranks/eccentrics it all gets a bit faint the further towards the cylinders you get

I will have to get them out again and see if there is anything on them that would identify the drawings as being related to one of the locos that were rebuilt as four cylinder as opposed to the bulk of the class.

Re: C1 Atlantic 4419 - Booster engine fitted Loco -More queries

Posted: Sun May 27, 2018 7:35 pm
by manna
G'Day Gents

1419, as built, was a standard 2cyl Atlantic, until rebuilt, by Gresley in 1923.

There were three 4 cyl compound engines built under H A Ivatt, these were 292, 1300, and 1421, I suspect you have the drawings for one of these engines.

All information gleaned from RCTS, part 3A.

manna

Re: C1 Atlantic 4419 - Booster engine fitted Loco -More queries

Posted: Mon May 28, 2018 9:40 am
by Robpulham
Thanks Manna,

After replying to Graeme, yesterday I revisited RCTS 3a myself and realised that I had misread the table and that although under the standard superheated section there is a section for inside cylinders I hadn't noted that it was blank for the standard engines :oops:.

I think that you are right and my drawing(s) must be for one of the Ivatt 4 cylinder experimental engines. I have just got the drawings out again and there are no nothing specific other than the drawing number 1236/1237 and the title GNR Express Passenger Engine.

The interesting thing about these drawings is that they are part of a collection of information that I got from a gent who was involved in developing the artwork which was ultimate used to create the Kemilway/Sunset Models C1. I will have to drop him a line and ask if he can recall which engine the drawings relate to.

Thanks again for your input.

Re: C1 Atlantic 4419 - Booster engine fitted Loco -More queries

Posted: Tue May 29, 2018 8:47 am
by billbedford
That drawing number suggest that this was the Vulcan Foundry loco, 1300

Re: C1 Atlantic 4419 - Booster engine fitted Loco -More queries

Posted: Wed May 30, 2018 6:27 pm
by Robpulham
billbedford wrote:
Tue May 29, 2018 8:47 am
That drawing number suggest that this was the Vulcan Foundry loco, 1300
Brilliant, Thanks Bill.

Edited to I have just had a look at it in my Yeadon volume and it was an odd looking thing when compared to the flowing lines of the standard C1's. It didn't have a very long life by the looks of things either.

Re: C1 Atlantic 4419 - Booster engine fitted Loco -More queries

Posted: Tue Jun 12, 2018 7:02 pm
by Robpulham
Just to follow this up a little more I took advantage of being in the vicinity of Locomotion last Sunday to pop down and take a lot of photos of 251

The upshot is that although there is no inside motion there are eccentrics and valves. Since they are fitted to the rear axle which is also where I would mount the gear box I foresee challenges ahead in order to fit them

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