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lamp colours

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 3:38 pm
by greenglade
Hi all

I've just been preparing the lamps on my Gresley A1 model and while looking at pictures of tenders noticed that the lamp body isn't white?..can someone confirm this please, I had thought that the bodies were white with clear lens at the front and red at the rear, I'm not so sure now hence my question to the experts, are the tail light bodies red as well as the lens?...anyone is an expert in this area when compared to me so will bow to your knowledge folks...;)

Over to you guys...

Pete

Re: lamp colours

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:01 pm
by 2512silverfox
Standard pattern loco headlamps were white bodied with a clear lens and a red shutter which rotated in front of the burner. At grouping the lamps of GN origin were black and became white in time. The other pre Group companies had their own patterns which disappeared very gradually.

Tail lamps were red bodied with a red lens until the advent of ARP regulations in the late 30s when they became white with a red lens, except brake van side lights which were a bit more complicated, but generally had black bodies and both red and white shutters.

Re: lamp colours

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:12 pm
by greenglade
thank you for that informative reply 2512...do you know of a photo of such a lamp either alone or fitted to a tender/...I have just been looking through my various books and had noted what I think are both colours....

This photo of 4472 in July 1938 looks like it's showing red....do you by chance know the cut-off date of when they changed it to white...I guess this may have taken some months if not years before being fully implemented? i ask as I'm modelling in 39...although my window could be 38 to 43 if pushed...

Image

Oh, and what's ARP?

cheers

Pete

Re: lamp colours

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:16 pm
by 65447
greenglade wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:12 pm
Oh, and what's ARP?
Air Raid Precautions - blackout and suchlike.

Re: lamp colours

Posted: Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:21 pm
by greenglade
65447 wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 9:16 pm
greenglade wrote:
Fri Jul 20, 2018 7:12 pm
Oh, and what's ARP?
Air Raid Precautions - blackout and suchlike.
thank you sir...I soon realised this and felt silly for asking..at the time of asking I thought it might be some form of auto system...then it clicked...:)

kind regards

Pete

Re: lamp colours

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:06 am
by 2512silverfox
The first image is the standard loco headlamp in use up until about 1935 after which the cowl was removed. This lamp had a red shutter inside and could be used as a head or tail lamp.

The second image is a typical (in this case NER) tail lamp with a red lens. This is white and on the Dyno car in the NRM, but the body would have been vermillion until about 1938.
oldhead.jpg
DS%2008.jpg

Re: lamp colours

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 10:39 am
by greenglade
I have been told that for the loco tender (when running light) the lamps would be white with the rear having a red lens....Would I be correct in thinking that the red-bodied lamps were only on the rear of passenger trains and fixed by the guard? Loco crew having just the two lamps both white bodied?

cheers

Pete

Re: lamp colours

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 4:44 pm
by 2512silverfox
That is about it. The red lamps were placed by the guard, and up until about 1923 each brake end also carried two red riding lights, one each side over the ducket. This can still be seen on the Royal Train brake in the NRM, where the riding lights were found to be red when restoration took place in 1976.

Light locos were supposed to display one white light over the centre of the buffer beam and one red aspect to the rear; with corridor tenders this could be either side since there was no centre iron!

Re: lamp colours

Posted: Sat Jul 21, 2018 5:39 pm
by greenglade
Thank you....I'm begining to get the picture..

Many thanks

Pete