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Trying to identify an 04

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:31 pm
by cctransuk
63668.jpg
I have come across this photo, the caption claiming it to be BR 63668.

I have my doubts, as the loco is clearly in LNER livery; the painted bufferbeam number appears to be ?404 .

Can anyone identify it please?

Regards, and thanks in anticipation,
John Isherwood.

Re: Trying to identify an 04

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 4:46 pm
by 45609
Most likely this is 5404. An original GC built class 8K. Later classed O4/1 by the LNER. It was never rebuilt into any of the later O4 sub parts and was withdrawn in September 1962. The 1947 LNER renumbering changed it to 3664 so it became BR number 63664. Not sure about location but seems to be somewhere on the GCR London extension.

Morgan

Re: Trying to identify an 04

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 5:06 pm
by Hatfield Shed
5404 is clearly legible on the bufferbeam. Looks like a mislabelling job by the photographer or a cataloguer?

Re: Trying to identify an 04

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 6:25 pm
by cctransuk
Thanks both - I was trying to identify it using "Locomotives of the L.N.E.R - A Pictorial Record" (Wethersett & Asher; Heffers; 1947). The renumbering supplement within confused me greatly)!

Regards,
John Isherwood.

Re: Trying to identify an 04

Posted: Fri Sep 14, 2018 7:42 pm
by 45609
No worries John. My info was out of part 6B of the RCTS Locos of the LNER (a.k.a the green books)

Morgan

Re: Trying to identify an 04

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:10 am
by Mickey
The loco it's self seems to be pretty much devoid of any smoke and steam?. Is it moving or standing still?. A signal wire is seen running along the cess so would indicate the presence of a nearby signal box and I presume the photographer possibly took the photograph from a overbridge looking down onto the railway. Did the O4s ever work down to Neasden in north west London because could that loco be somewhere on the two track section of the GC main line of the southern part of London Extension down to Marylebone?.

Re: Trying to identify an 04

Posted: Sat Sep 15, 2018 1:06 pm
by Pyewipe Junction
According to BR Database (don't know how reliable that is), 5404 was at Woodford Halse in 1929 and 1931, but spent the rest of its time further north.

Re: Trying to identify an 04

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 10:48 am
by kudu
My records show it at Mexborough on 1/1/23 and Dairycoates on 31/12/47. For what it is worth, I have never heard of O4s reaching Neasden, and there were plenty of double track sections elsewhere on the GC - if it was on the GC at all in the photo.

Kudu

Re: Trying to identify an 04

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:23 am
by Hatfield Shed
Mickey wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:10 am
The loco it's self seems to be pretty much devoid of any smoke and steam?. Is it moving or standing still?...
There's no movement blur in the front pony truck wheelset spokes, neither is there any heat haze effect from the chimney, which makes me feel steam has been shut off some time. Either standing or coasting dead slow up to a signal that is on: and I feel the latter is more likely as slow movement would prevent a visible column of heat haze effect above the chimney.

Re: Trying to identify an 04

Posted: Sun Sep 16, 2018 6:20 pm
by Mickey
Hatfield Shed wrote:
Sun Sep 16, 2018 11:23 am
Mickey wrote:
Sat Sep 15, 2018 5:10 am
The loco it's self seems to be pretty much devoid of any smoke and steam?. Is it moving or standing still?...
There's no movement blur in the front pony truck wheelset spokes, neither is there any heat haze effect from the chimney, which makes me feel steam has been shut off some time. Either standing or coasting dead slow up to a signal that is on: and I feel the latter is more likely as slow movement would prevent a visible column of heat haze effect above the chimney.
A nice post Hatfield Shed and in fact a very good reply.

I reckon the knowledge of railways, signalling & steam locos on this forum is of such a high standard it's pretty mind blowing to know that any question can be answered!.

Re: Trying to identify an 04

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:34 am
by Woodcock29
According to Yeadon O4/1 5404 was shedded at Woodford from 8/7/29 to 10/10/29 and again from 4/3/31 to 2/9/42. The rest of the time it was much further north including in NE territory from 2/9/42 to 29/4/46.

An interesting point is that in the photo it still retains Ramsbottom safety valves and has the LNER cast chimney, which according to Yeadon could have been fitted from March 1933. Yeadon states that some O4s retained Ramsbottom safety valves up until 1936. Assuming that info is correct the date is likely to be sometime between March 1933 and some time in 1936 which coincides with it being shedded at Woodford.

Andrew Emmett

Re: Trying to identify an 04

Posted: Mon Sep 17, 2018 7:50 am
by Woodcock29
Another interesting point is that in Yeadon Vol 24A (p20) there is a photo of 5404 with flower pot chimney, Ramsbottom safety valves and a NE smokebox door! So the question is where was it fitted with a NE smokebox door before it acquired the LNER cast chimney?

It was shedded at Mexborough from 15/11/19 to 8/7//29. But had a very short stay at Keadby from 10/10/29 to 1/11/30, then Immingham to 4/3/31 after which it went back to Woodford.

All repairs appear to have been undertaken at Gorton. So presumably the boiler put on it at some stage at Gorton already had a NE smokebox door?

Andrew