Rear Lamp position

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silverfox
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
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Rear Lamp position

Post by silverfox » Sat Nov 10, 2018 10:02 pm

Was there a specified position to put the rear red lamp on a tender loco?

john coffin
GNR C1 4-4-2
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Re: Rear Lamp position

Post by john coffin » Sun Nov 11, 2018 1:53 am

I think it depended upon whether it was light engine, or travelling tender first.

I mean on a train, it would not be seen, the red light would be on the back of the rear carriage or brake.

My understanding was that the centre upper lamp iron on GNR engines was for the main light
which would I suggest mean the red one.

There must surely be an RCH standard from 1905.

Paul

52A
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
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Re: Rear Lamp position

Post by 52A » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:08 am

There was no standard for tail light position, main thing was to have one!

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greenglade
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
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Re: Rear Lamp position

Post by greenglade » Mon Nov 12, 2018 10:37 am

If 'light engine' this reference may be of interest, it's clear to see that 4472 has the lamp placed centrally, the picture is from 1936 just after an overhaul and when she was fitted with the new Streamlined tender. This picture raises a further question, the colour of the lamp? Some have said it's just a dirty white. others have pointed out it's red (perhaps) vermillion) and that lamps in this period were kept clean. To me it's a red colour, over the years I have looked at hundreds of photo's showing lamps and no white lamp looked like this, the older vermillion colour lamps do seem to match though.
So which is it?...perhaps a question that will never be answered...:)


Image

Pete

52A
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Re: Rear Lamp position

Post by 52A » Mon Nov 12, 2018 11:56 am

Vermillion lamps before my time! It would appear that the loco is in back gear, so if it was heading somewhere the lamp is placed correctly for a light engine move.

john coffin
GNR C1 4-4-2
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Re: Rear Lamp position

Post by john coffin » Mon Nov 12, 2018 12:35 pm

I have just seen a photo of a j3 in LNER times pulling a train of 6 wheelers tender first an Ivatt tender,
In the centre of the tender on the upper lamp iron is a white painted lamp. i cannot identify the type
of lamp other than the outside.

can't post it, since it is not mine.

paul

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greenglade
GER D14 4-4-0 'Claud Hamilton'
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Re: Rear Lamp position

Post by greenglade » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:32 pm

Hi John

I wasn't trying to say that all rear lamps were red, just that they were still about, the majority by far that I've seen are white. IIRC Vermillion lamps were a leftover from GNR days, this included the front lamps which I think I've also seen on loco's in early LNER pictures.

Pete

john coffin
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Re: Rear Lamp position

Post by john coffin » Mon Nov 12, 2018 1:40 pm

i realise that Pete, I was just commenting that it kind of reflected my point that the upper lamp iron was for
running tender first, and I was surprised to see it so clearly on the photo I was just sent a copy of.

Not least because it is a lowly J3, even though on a passenger train.

Paul

this is just part of the photo
Attachments
GNR J3 with Ivatt tender in LNER colours.jpg

silverfox
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
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Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Rear Lamp position

Post by silverfox » Mon Nov 12, 2018 4:32 pm

The reason i ask is a follow up to this picture ( now the correct way around!) Enfield Library has a lot to answer for

The loco appears to be carrying a Red painted rear lamp on the offside bracket

This, if white, denotes
Freight,Ballast or Inspection train requiring to stop between signal boxes. Branch Freight train

Now i doubt if the loco pushed the wagons up from Angel Rd junction ,Nor along the 'New line' to where the Goods Yard points are situated
It could have been loco first along either line and then ran round using the loops in the Goods yard ( according to an 1960 OS map) but if that were the case woudn't the crew have put the lamps in the correct positions?
Attachments
Reversed GE station picture.jpg
Reversed GE station picture.jpg (30.02 KiB) Viewed 1319 times

John Palmer
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Location: Somerset

Re: Rear Lamp position

Post by John Palmer » Tue Nov 13, 2018 3:35 pm

That rather nice LSW brake van is sandwiched between the engine and the train, suggesting two possibilities:

1. The train has arrived from the South (whether via Angel Road or what the OS plans refer to as the Enfield Branch). For some reason the engine has been repositioned at the rear of the train and has drawn it forward into the single line section between Low Level and Angel Road.
2. The train has arrived from the North and the brake van is in the course of being repositioned at its southern end prior to a departure back to the North.

Does your local knowledge suggest which of these is the more likely, or indeed some other possibility?

The train seems to be standing in the single line section between Low Level and Angel Road, so presumably the driver has been provided with train staff, token or whatever as authority to enter that section. Might that account for the placement of the lamp as a headlamp code? I assume that what has taken place is in the nature of a 'shunt into forward section' operation, as I suspect that there are too many vehicles behind the brake for the train to be allowed to go forward to Angel Road.

silverfox
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 297
Joined: Thu Feb 04, 2010 9:49 pm

Re: Rear Lamp position

Post by silverfox » Fri Nov 16, 2018 10:28 pm

An update from The GERS forum
The picture was taken in 1935 and the train was there to replace a crossing gate ( the dark coloured lamp) gives this answer legs. See Peters pic of 4472
It also shows that the Signal Box that was there in 1910 has been removed along with the repositioning of the signal
Here is is the crossing in 1910 taken from a position in front of the house with the washing
low level 5.jpg

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