NRM Loco Review

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delticfan
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NRM Loco Review

Post by delticfan » Fri Apr 19, 2019 10:34 am

I see that the NRM has decided to cease all mainline running of its diesel fleet. Gut wrenching enough is that D9002 lovingly cared for by a dedicated band of volunteers will be basically silenced. So a mainline capable loco which took hundreds if not thousands of free hours to the NRM to bring to life will be a dead exhibit, along with many other locos. Only the Flying Scotsman will run on the mainline.

Thoughts?

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Re: NRM Loco Review

Post by richard » Thu Apr 25, 2019 4:11 am

My understanding was that D9002 was mainly used to move other exhibits around (eg. between Shildon and York) and didn't actually haul many excursions.

If that is the case, then they still need something to move them, so it is probably a very small reduction in actual mainline running? Also, do they have any mainline-capable diesels which are not duplicated elsewhere? (the HST prototype is the only one I can think of - but not sure of mainline status?)


What is the status of Oliver Cromwell? I guess its boiler is up soon? You do keep hearing murmerings of the Duchess as well although I suspect that is currently little more than wishful thinking from some of the staff.
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Re: NRM Loco Review

Post by 65447 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 11:02 am

According to the monthly magazine Steam Railway, which reports on the heritage and preservation scene, the NRM review is still not quite complete but some intentions are becoming clearer.

1. Oliver Cromwell will return to main line steam, subject to finalisation of the support service contract with the Great Central Railway, which may have been signed off by now;

2. Mallard and Duchess of Hamilton are likely to remain as static exhibits at York, although no decisions had yet been made on the final selection of exhibits at York post-1921 nor on any other restorations save as point 4 below;;

3. Flying Scotsman will also remain in main line steam, but the NRM states that it is not viable to operate anything which the private sector already covers, giving as examples the majority of the diesel fleet (there are more than one Deltic types), Black 5s and Castles;

4. Subject to proposals being made to the NRM by the preservation/private sector, there is a possibility that either or both the V2 Class Green Arrow and the GNR J52 Saddle Tank could return to steam, the former to main line operation;

5. Other accessions out on loan will (probably) remain where they currently are located.

By the time the May issue arrives the above may be superseded by the latest shenanigans in the MSI group.

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Re: NRM Loco Review

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Thu Apr 25, 2019 1:38 pm

I thought it had previously been decided that repair or (more likely in view of the existing problem) replacement of the V2's cylinders was verboten because it would destroy the authenticity of the preserved loco.....
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Re: NRM Loco Review

Post by richard » Thu Apr 25, 2019 3:24 pm

I think that referred to replacement by three separate castings - ie. the BR solution, rather than a new uniblock.

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Re: NRM Loco Review

Post by drmditch » Thu Apr 25, 2019 7:53 pm

Rather than looking at the views of future Rail Vehicle Strategy published in the 'sometimes-selective' press, let alone the strange distortions that can occur in on-line media, why not look at the original Science Museum Group document?

The link is ......here...

I should also state that I am a volunteer at Locomotion in Shildon. I conduct tours of the collection with my principal day being Friday.
There is a lot for a person of my age to dislike about 21st Century Public Sector bureaucracy, and some aspects of 'branding' etc can be annoying.

In terms of making artifacts accessible and getting people to understand that the museum is not just about 'bright shiny pieces of metal', there is much that is good. I certainly enjoy encountering a whole range of people. from those older people with actual railway experience who may know more than I do, to the delightful young family on their Easter holidays whom I was privileged to meet on Good Friday. Shildon has a slightly smaller number of volunteers than York, but we offer more cab access and more guided tours than our 'big sister'.

It is difficult to satisfy all those who have interests in railways, and the role of the Museum is inherently different to that of the 'preserved/heritage/operational' railways. (Delete as appropriate!) I know the people responsible for the production of the above document, and they are well-qualified, knowledgeable, and very aware of the sometimes conflicting demands upon them.

The only major drawback with spending my Fridays at Shildon is that it takes time away from working on my own railway!

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Re: NRM Loco Review

Post by delticfan » Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:37 pm

What are the long term plans for the workshop area at York? I take the point about the NRM’s Deltic being duplicated with others however it must be useful for moving stock on the mainline and if there is a group of volunteers willing to care for it where’s the harm in keeping it running or any other loco for that matter budgets permitting of course. I used to volunteer at York but it’s been made clear that I am not required now which I feel is a shame.

I do remember that it was a small group of rail enthusiasts who pushed to have the museum at York in the early 70’s.

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Re: NRM Loco Review

Post by 65447 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 1:13 pm

delticfan wrote:
Sat Apr 27, 2019 12:37 pm
I do remember that it was a small group of rail enthusiasts who pushed to have the museum at York in the early 70’s.
The NER formed the basis of the collection there and the LNER added to it from 1923...

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Re: NRM Loco Review

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 6:12 pm

I certainly recall something of a campaign (or battle) in the early seventies to ensure that the new National museum would be in York, thus keeping the established collection in that city and in the North, near the so called "cradle of railways" rather than (as was then usual) everything recognised as being of national significance getting snatched for permanent display in London.
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Re: NRM Loco Review

Post by 65447 » Sat Apr 27, 2019 8:21 pm

I recall being taken to the museum at York (from just north of London) more than once during the 1950s. Surely York would not have been an option in the absence of a well-established collection already there? Clapham did not draw sufficient visitors and was losing money, whilst the Science Museum also had railway-related exhibits.

Now the reverse is happening, with exhibits being dispersed to satellite locations, on loan to local museums/collections or to preserved lines and societies.

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Re: NRM Loco Review

Post by john coffin » Sat Apr 27, 2019 9:35 pm

It is worth remembering that the creation of the NRM was as a result of EU obligations in regard to who owned the museum.

Clapham had belonged to British Railways and associates, and it was part of the plan by the Labour Government at the time
to take the EU legislation and fold it around to decentralise such things. Later the Blair government did it with for instance
the Leeds Military Museum which did not attract proper numbers of visitors, and subsequently has I think closed.

Since then of course Museums have been used as a political football to try and make London less full of tourist attractions.
What the politicians forget is that a considerable number of the visitors to any attraction in the UK ALWAYS visit London,
and with all the historical stuff available for free, asking them to visit other cities is not necessarily going to work.

From a research point of view, the last couple of reviews of the Science Museum grouping which includes York
has I think made it more difficult for those who want to visit York on a whim, get access to the research collection,
hence almost certainly reducing the potential visitor numbers. On a similar vein, since the Colindale part of the
British Library newspaper archive moved up to Boston Spa, I have not been to the main Library anywhere near
as often as I visited Colindale.

Finally remember that the Flying Scotsman really cost both money and credibility for the conservation programme of the NRM,
or whatever it is called now.

Paul

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Re: NRM Loco Review

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:12 am

As far as I know the Royal Armouries Museum, close by Clarence Dock in Leeds is still very much open:
https://royalarmouries.org/
Was there another military museum in Leeds?
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Re: NRM Loco Review

Post by 4812 » Sun Apr 28, 2019 11:47 am

Using the NRM is easy. Access to the National Archives of Scotland requires proof of identity, proof of residence, and 2 photos to get a Reader's Ticket (valid for 3 years). Items from store requested by telephone then require 24 hours notice; items asked for by email need 2 working days.

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Re: NRM Loco Review

Post by john coffin » Sun Apr 28, 2019 12:11 pm

I guess that just proves how parochial us Londoners really are!!

certainly there had been rumours here some years ago about the lack of visitors to the Armoury museum, so
maybe the initial results were bad.

As for York, I agree that once you have pre booked, it might well be easy to use, but it is no longer possible
for me to suddenly want to make a day trip and also fit in some research, I have to pre book, at which point I
may not be eligible for the special price tickets from KX.

What is clear is that the Museums all seem to have different views on their purpose, and I am sure that I still do
not really know if the proposals of the York bosses meet what we had hoped for, both preserving history, and
making the history readily available to the largest proportion of the populace. Which is why getting some exhibits
working and out in the public domain is good, however, with no other revenue stream, how many can they keep
running all the time.

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Re: NRM Loco Review

Post by delticfan » Sun Apr 28, 2019 7:54 pm

I think the most irritating move from the recent shake up at York is the active discouragement / abolition of the involvement of certain volunteer groups on certain locos. The expert knowledge of these people will more than likely be lost to the NRM now. I appreciate they need to implement policy decisions but surely a compromise could be sought. It is most certain that in the future the NRM will need this involvement again but doubtful whether it will be available to them. I quote the previous post that noted enthusiasts fought, almost battled to have the NRM at York, the present management seem oblivious to this history and reason for the museums existence. Contracting out repairs and overhauling locos costs money as I’m sure the NRM know ref Flying Scotsman so you would imagine they would welcome any free help available.

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