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What are these coaches....?

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 10:23 pm
by nutford
This pic is labelled 'Ripon, 1933'.

I can vouch for it being Ripon, it may indeed be 1933, but what are those coaches?
Picture2.jpg
They don't look to me like Pullmans, and from the logo on the centre I suspect they might be GWR coaches, but I can't match them to anything obvious there either. And while there was I think a Barry-Newcastle express, which had LNER, LMS and GWR coaches, I'd thought that went down the ECML to York.

I had thought they were LNER Tourist stock, but again couldn't quite match them up to anything, and the motif in the centre didn't seem to match any pics I have...

Any ideas anyone?

Thanks

Re: What are these coaches....?

Posted: Tue Jul 02, 2019 11:04 pm
by JASd17
At first glance they are Great Western. I shall have to look further into the books.


John

Re: What are these coaches....?

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:34 am
by strang steel
Barry to Newcastle in the 1930s. Now that is a journey I would have liked to have taken.

Re: What are these coaches....?

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 9:03 am
by John Palmer
These look to me like the first two vehicles in one of the GW's 1925-built articulated dining triplets to Diagrams H.30, H.31 and H.32 (1st-Kitchen-3rd). All rebuilt into individual vehicles by 1937, so evidently regarded by the GWR as something of an unsuccessful experiment.

Re: What are these coaches....?

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 10:52 am
by jwealleans
John, didn't we spot that GW articulated set on a Hull working in a Carriage Working document some time ago?

Re: What are these coaches....?

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:34 pm
by nutford
strang steel wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:34 am
Barry to Newcastle in the 1930s. Now that is a journey I would have liked to have taken.
Rather you than me.... took 12 hours.....

The odd thing if those coaches are restaurant cars is they would (you would think) be in the centre of the train? I read..

'The G.W.R. usually make up the train with a composite restaurant car in the centre, flanked by composite coaches on both sides and third-class brakes outside them, together with a composite brake for Hull, all of the latest 60 ft, steel-panelled stock.The L.N.E.R. use a third-class brake, a third corridor, an open third-class coach for diners, a combined kitchen and dining car and a first-class brake, with an additional composite brake to and from Hull, all of the newest East Coast stock.'

Of course this could be a different train, but still odd for restaurant cars next to the engine...?

Re: What are these coaches....?

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:39 pm
by jwealleans
Unless they're attached/detached en route.

Re: What are these coaches....?

Posted: Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:51 pm
by nutford
jwealleans wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:39 pm
Unless they're attached/detached en route.
Indeed. The Newcastle-Barry train apparently had 2 LMS coaches at the front initially which might have given some explanation, BUT these were detached at York. So IF this was that train,
a) it's odd (but not impossible) for it to be going via Ripon, and
b) either way the LMS coaches should be at the front.

My thinking so far is this is a different train...

Re: What are these coaches....?

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 8:45 am
by Danby Wiske
If the train had been diverted via the Leeds Northern line (for whatever reason), then maybe the 'usual' carriage working practices would have to be altered. This might explain the absence of the LMS vehicles...

Re: What are these coaches....?

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 9:41 am
by billbedford
nutford wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:51 pm
jwealleans wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 1:39 pm
Unless they're attached/detached en route.
Indeed. The Newcastle-Barry train apparently had 2 LMS coaches at the front initially which might have given some explanation, BUT these were detached at York.
So where were the LMS coaches attached? There are no obvious places where this could happen.

Re: What are these coaches....?

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 10:09 am
by Danby Wiske
LMS through coaches Bristol-Newcastle and return. On the train in question they were normally detached at York and then travelled by the Midland route via Sheffield, Derby and Birmingham.
See article from Meccano magazine here:
https://railwaywondersoftheworld.com/ports.html

Re: What are these coaches....?

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 2:12 pm
by John Palmer
As an alternative to attaching/detaching the Bristol portion at York, doing so at Gloucester looks reasonably straightforward, given the connections between the GW and Midland stations. It would appear that a routing that followed the Midland main line north of Cheltenham was appreciably quicker than going via the 'Ports-to-Ports' route, particularly so far as the meandering section between Kings Sutton and Hatherley Jc. was concerned. I note that in the southbound direction the LMS portion departed York some 23 minutes after the 'Ports-to-Ports', but was only 5 behind when passing Lansdown Jc. just south of Cheltenham.

Re: What are these coaches....?

Posted: Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:28 pm
by strang steel
nutford wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:34 pm
strang steel wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:34 am
Barry to Newcastle in the 1930s. Now that is a journey I would have liked to have taken.
Rather you than me.... took 12 hours.....

12 hours on a train in the 1930s; sound good to me. I would have filled a spotting notebook in one day, judging by the route the train must have taken.

Re: What are these coaches....?

Posted: Fri Jul 05, 2019 12:15 am
by nutford
strang steel wrote:
Thu Jul 04, 2019 5:28 pm
nutford wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 12:34 pm
strang steel wrote:
Wed Jul 03, 2019 8:34 am
Barry to Newcastle in the 1930s. Now that is a journey I would have liked to have taken.
Rather you than me.... took 12 hours.....

12 hours on a train in the 1930s; sound good to me. I would have filled a spotting notebook in one day, judging by the route the train must have taken.
Ah - but that's NOW. Back then, 12 hours on that train would be the equivalent pleasure of 12 hours on say a trans-Penine 'express' today, but probably less comfortable.... But yes, a few sights on the way I'm sure!

Re: What are these coaches....?

Posted: Sat Jul 06, 2019 8:33 pm
by strang steel
I was assuming that I might get a compartment, and could wander up and down the corridor every couple of hours or so. I might even nod off between stations or junctions.