Ransomes & Rapier 45 ton breakdown crane LNER livery

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colin61
GER J70 0-6-0T Tram
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Ransomes & Rapier 45 ton breakdown crane LNER livery

Post by colin61 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 3:22 pm

Hi All,

Looking for information as to what the LNER livery was for the two 1943 build Ransomes & Rapier 45 ton breakdown cranes which the Ministry of Supply ordered for the LNER? These were of the same design as those ordered earlier for the GWR and the Southern.

These are the two cranes now at the NYMR and Bluebell. Original numbers 941601 and 951516 (BR CEPS numbers ADRR95214 and ADRR95215 ).

I suspect they may have been supplied in wartime black but may have also been originally grey per those earlier builds supplied to the GWR and SR. I have searched widely for references that give details ( including for example http://www.bdca.org.uk/gallery/index.ph ... and-Rapier ) on this subject of their livery but have so far drawn a blank.

Thanks in advance for all inputs,

Cheers,

Colin.

65447
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Ransomes & Rapier 45 ton breakdown crane LNER livery

Post by 65447 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 4:20 pm

Peter Tatlow, Railway Breakdown Cranes Volume 2, Noodle Books 2013, on p350 writes:

It can be difficult to be specific about the liveries worn by breakdown cranes, particularly in pre-BR days. In general terms, however, it is believed that GWR and probably LNER cranes were black and SR ones grey with red buffer beams. Not surprisingly, the Army's cranes were painted khaki.

However his caption to the monochrome photograph of an SR crane on p340 refers to the SR crane being in Ransomes & Rapier's grey livery, whilst the monochrome photograph on p341 of a GWR crane in 1940 could be grey or black.

As you note, the first crane ordered by the MoS for the LNER ended up on the NYMR and the second on the Bluebell line; either or both might be able to advise of the original livery; no doubt they were rubbed down for repainting at some point.

mick b
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Re: Ransomes & Rapier 45 ton breakdown crane LNER livery

Post by mick b » Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:26 pm

LNER Livery pre war was Black lined in Red . Plain Black would be the obvious choice for wartime.

65447
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 1545
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Overlooking the GEML

Re: Ransomes & Rapier 45 ton breakdown crane LNER livery

Post by 65447 » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:30 pm

mick b wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:26 pm
LNER Livery pre war was Black lined in Red . Plain Black would be the obvious choice for wartime.
I'd be interested to learn why cranes were classed as locomotives for livery purposes - was it because they 'belonged' to the CME/DME? The official livery for Departmental stock was Oxford Blue body/black underframe.

mick b
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3163
Joined: Tue May 30, 2006 4:43 pm

Re: Ransomes & Rapier 45 ton breakdown crane LNER livery

Post by mick b » Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:56 pm

65447 wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 8:30 pm
mick b wrote:
Wed Jul 31, 2019 5:26 pm
LNER Livery pre war was Black lined in Red . Plain Black would be the obvious choice for wartime.
I'd be interested to learn why cranes were classed as locomotives for livery purposes - was it because they 'belonged' to the CME/DME? The official livery for Departmental stock was Oxford Blue body/black underframe.
Steam powered ?

Tim Watson
LNER N2 0-6-2T
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Re: Ransomes & Rapier 45 ton breakdown crane LNER livery

Post by Tim Watson » Wed Aug 14, 2019 1:38 am

Did these cranes operate out of KX?

Tim

65447
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Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:44 pm
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Re: Ransomes & Rapier 45 ton breakdown crane LNER livery

Post by 65447 » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:03 pm

Yes from 1943, when the KX Cowans Sheldon crane was requisitioned by the MoS for wartime service. The replacement R&R crane remained at KX until late 1961.

Tim Watson
LNER N2 0-6-2T
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Re: Ransomes & Rapier 45 ton breakdown crane LNER livery

Post by Tim Watson » Wed Aug 14, 2019 4:18 pm

Thanks. There is quite a good N gauge model now available that would look good at the back of Belle Isle on Copenhagen Fields. Slightly more modern than our era, but not too far off.

Tim

Tim Watson
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Re: Ransomes & Rapier 45 ton breakdown crane LNER livery

Post by Tim Watson » Thu Aug 15, 2019 12:59 am

Does anyone have a picture of the KX crane?

Tim

Platypus
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Re: Ransomes & Rapier 45 ton breakdown crane LNER livery

Post by Platypus » Fri Aug 16, 2019 2:52 pm

Hello All,

in response to 65447 re why steam cranes were black, the more likely explanation is that they were steam powered machinery allocated to a MPD who were responsible for non main works maintenance. As they used to sit around an MPD waiting for a call out, their very presence in a dirty workplace means that black was the obvious colour ( technically a neutral ) , and painting it like other black locomotives would likely follow. BR Era photos show that large steam cranes were well maintained, and each MPD seemed to have its own livery embellishments.

This all changed when the decision to go for Red, and later Yellow, for safety reasons, practically meant that the livery was more standardised than previously, and in later BR days the cranes were shifted from MPDs to Main Works. Conversion to diesel power also meant the they no longer needed to be kept powered up whilst on standby.

Regards, Platypus

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