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G.N.R. Stirling 174 class large 0-6-0.

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 9:51 am
by Atlantic 3279
My I pose a question please for those with an interest in the predecessors of the L.N.E.R? Norman Groves' books on Great Northern locomotive history contain a single photograph of one of these six locomotives, showing the right side of 145. I find the caption a little misleading, as it may be taken to indicate that the locomotive is in original condition, yet details in the accompanying text suggest that the sandboxes are in their later positions and the livery appears to be the well-known lighter green that the G.N.R. did not introduce until a few years after the building of these engines. The same photograph appears in the relevant issue of Locomotives Illustrated. Is there only one known photograph of these few large 0-6-0s, or can anybody point me towards any other? Have any original drawings survived purges of old paperwork at Doncaster? It is of course possible to deduce the way in which even later modifications (such as the luxury of loco brakes!) may have looked and the likely appearance of the left side of one of these locos based on general symmetry and on the relatively plentiful photographs of the smaller, standard 171 series 0-6-0s of the same era, but it would be interesting to see some sort of confirmation of details.

This does not necessarily mean I'm going to build a model of one of these any time soon. I'm still mindful of the un-answerable questions that were posed by my attempts to build a 12 wheeled clerestory-roofed East Coast restaurant car.

Re: G.N.R. Stirling 174 class large 0-6-0.

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:52 am
by Hatfield Shed
Who could not be interested, for the LNER was in many respects the GNR writ large. (The 174 class a repeat of the Sturrock steam tender episode and a foretaste of the later Gresley P1, super heavy goods locomotives that could not be fully exploited due to prevailing operational limitations.)

There is a side elevation sketch (no engine brakes!) and selected dimensions in GF Bird's survey 'Locomotives of the GNR': p56 in the revised reissue of 2013, from Amberley Publishing. Big 0-6-0, 17' 7" coupled wheelbase...

Re: G.N.R. Stirling 174 class large 0-6-0.

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 12:28 pm
by Atlantic 3279
Thanks, your remarks on the locos partly account for my interest. I find there is also hope of a works drawing. NRM on-line list of Doncaster works loco drawings includes P20A, which appears from the notes to relate to the correct batch of six locos.

P 20A, Series P: Generals, goods. GNR 6-wheels coupled goods engine, Date xx/xx/1871, Box No 124, Condition 2,
Cylinder 19 x 28 wheels, 5' diam; nos
174 - 376, 158, 145-6, 164; Doncaster,
scale 1 = 1'

Re: G.N.R. Stirling 174 class large 0-6-0.

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 1:49 pm
by Atlantic 3279
I've ordered a cheap-ish copy of the Bird book in case the drawing in there is enough to save me a special trip to the NRM or a rather large fee for a print by post of the works drawing. Not a bad idea to have the Bird book anyway, even if Groves does identify fault with it in various places.

Re: G.N.R. Stirling 174 class large 0-6-0.

Posted: Wed Sep 11, 2019 10:49 pm
by john coffin
Graeme,
best advice for dwgs from York, is to get a dvd copy, and find a local house to print it.

I will see what relevant data I have to hand. But don't forget they were withdrawn in 1902-06, and the numbers were then
used on another class of Stirling locos, which I need to check, so not sure they would fit in at Grantham in your time scale.

Paul

Re: G.N.R. Stirling 174 class large 0-6-0.

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 1:04 am
by kimballthurlow
According to Bird 1910 Edition, No. 164 was broken up in 1901.
Bird also shows numbers 145 and 146 were re-allocated in 1906 to YT classes (0-8-2T condensing) Doncaster Works numbers 1127 and 1128.
The fate of the remaining 3 cannot be gleaned from that book.

Kimball

Re: G.N.R. Stirling 174 class large 0-6-0.

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 9:46 am
by john coffin
:oops: meant to say Ivatt,

Paul

Re: G.N.R. Stirling 174 class large 0-6-0.

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:18 pm
by Atlantic 3279
Certainly not a legitimate type of loco for 1938-ish Grantham, as Groves gives last withdrawal date as 1906, but for use at home on an artistic interpretation of Bardney on the Lincs loop line, admittedly at the wrong date but with rule No1 in operation, it might happen one day......

Re: G.N.R. Stirling 174 class large 0-6-0.

Posted: Thu Sep 12, 2019 2:31 pm
by Hatfield Shed
For all that the modelling is officially between this start date and that end date, I like trains. A few samples from before and after the specified period are going to be sneaked in. Every time I look at the picture of the 0-8-0T that Sturrock had supplied by Avonside, it's mighty charms call to me...