The LNER Encyclopedia

All,
My knowledge of Mk1s and Gresley vehicles is reasonable/around average - but anything else I have a distinct lack of knowledge. Can anyone help in identifying the coach behind the J50 in this view, taken by the late Brian Morrison, in 1953 at Oakleigh Park? I am guessing with it being a clerestory that it could be an old LNER or more likely GNR vehicle?



I have cropped in to try and help assist...



Apologies for the slightly poor image, the scan is from a print that was originally done in the 1950s, and I need to dig out the original negative and rescan it properly. For the avoidance of doubt for moderators, I am very fortunate to have been bequeathed the late Mr Morrison's collection, so no breach of copyright in posting this.

Any help would be welcomed.

Rich

That has more of an NER look to me. Unusual to see footboards still present that late. Is it service stock rather than still in passenger use?

The vehicle behind the J50 is a pre-group design originating from 'somewhere', and the headcode says the train is composed of vehicles rated as coaching stock. Plenty of interesting features on view for someone knowledgeable to make an identification...

How many more 'what is it' photos do you have from this collection?

Hi Chaps,

jwealleans wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 8:05 am That has more of an NER look to me. Unusual to see footboards still present that late. Is it service stock rather than still in passenger use?

I suspect it could be service stock, and the comments from yourself and @Hatfield Shed, would suggest that is likely - I'll dig through the records and see what Brian Morrison actually recorded the train as. I know he says the A1 is on a Parcels working, so chances are there are something on the J50 working too, but it's not on the caption details for some reason.

Hatfield Shed wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 9:58 am How many more 'what is it' photos do you have from this collection?

I suppose there could be many! His collection of images covers about 14,000 from 1951-1960, all over the country, although the LNER lines out of KGX were a favourite of Brian's, especially Holloway Bank from where there are some stunners! This one came up, as I have been looking through for images of J50s, as I am about to start scratch building one in model form. I can have a look for some others if people are interested!

I wonder whether in fact is might be an ex GE carriage full brake?

I thought GE was a possibility, Paul, but there look to be too many roof vents for that. Unless it's been altered.

The stock behind 60156 looks interesting too.

jwealleans wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 8:05 am That has more of an NER look to me. Unusual to see footboards still present that late. Is it service stock rather than still in passenger use?

Confirmed by the negative details, 68931 was on a breakdown train, so yes service stock, rather than passenger use. Would still be interesting to know what it was tho. The J50 was a Hornsey locomotive at the time of the image I believe, if that helps?

Jonathan,

almost all service stock I have seen or studied has been rather modified, and of course if the train is the Hitchin
breakdown, it would have contained what might these days be called an accommodation vehicle, since often
repairs and recovery would be overnight or even longer, so they might well have had extra venting.

Since I have only ever seen the GA of two ex GE Clerestories and they were not brakes, I am not sure.

Paul

john coffin wrote: ↑Thu Sep 07, 2023 5:40 pm I wonder whether in fact is might be an ex GE carriage full brake?

Definitely not ex-GER, their panelling was much divided in the lower waist section; this is above the waist and very much NER style.
Looking at the enlargement and the length of the bogie step-boards it appears to be a 6-wheel bogie. I'm thinking ex-ECJS built at York or possibly Cowlairs...

On second thoughts, if it is the end of the next carriage hiding behind the smoke deflector of 60156, that makes it a 6-wheeler...

Just a thought (and I'm no C&W expert!); could these be former North London line stock?
Formerly part of the LNWR, their stock would run out to the GN suburbs. However, the workings transferred to the GN post WW2 and I don't what became of the NLL rolling stock.

The arc roof with clerestory and the guards ducket set in from the end is characteristic of NER brake coaches built in the early years of the 20th century. There were 90 dia18 brake thirds transferred to the GC and GE sections during the 30s, but I don't think it was one of those.

Is there no other photos of the Hornsey breakdown train? that might give a clue as to what this vehicle was originally.

I've had a look but I can't find any.

Thanks for all the attempts guys, like @jwealleans, I have had a search of the website for Hitchin Breakdown Train, 1960s, and not really come up with anything .. but I'll keep searching. I'm also going to have a look through Mr Morrison's records and see if he went to Hitchin at any point around this time, where the breakdown set may be in the background of a shot.

Might be worth a look through Peter Tatlow's books on breakdown cranes if anyone has them to hand...

If it was an NER dia Y018 it could be one of these
DE900104
DE901580
DE901591
DE901714
DE901721
DE902507
DE943702
DE961522
DE973703
Taken from Hugh Longworth book British Railways Pre-nationalisation coaching stock GWR&LNER. Non state the were used in a breakdown train.