Green Arrow & The NRM policy

[Andrew Craig-Bennett]

Let me make another distinction - between engines which have an unique significance ("Mallard" is the obvious example) and engines which are representative of their type. The latter are perhaps better candidates for being steamed, the former are perhaps better preserved with more original components.

This is special pleading - I am leading up to something...

I must say that I would very much like to see GER 490 back in steam.

A modest little engine, with much to be modest about - its only claim to "significance" as an unique locomotive is that it was the last 2-4-0 in traffic on the BR network, and it was not prepared for preservation with that much thought, perhaps. But it is absolutely "typical" of the GER cross country network and it would make a lovely pair with the NNR's J15.

[pete2hogs]

I agree that 70013 should have been left pretty much as it last dropped its fire, actually, especially since Britannia is still in existence and will run again.

I suppose opinions will differ as to what engines exactly should be restored to steam, but I think _generally speaking_ those in the National Collection shouldn't be. They don't have unlimited money, and while it may be feasible to keep all replaced bits off an engine and put it back to original condition after its ticket expires I doubt it would be seen as much of a priority - and bits have been known to go missing.

The obvious exceptions are locos like 4472 and 3440 which while very historic engines have much history since first preserved. Anything which hasn't been steamed since first placed in the museum needs very careful consideration before we play with it. There are plenty like Hardwicke and Henry Oakley that have steamed but haven't been seen in steam in many years which could make a welcome return and which are representative of a type and period rather than some unique achievement.

I took exception to 251 because it is trying to be representative of its original condition, and I don't think it makes sense to go to all the effort to make it capable of working properly under modern conditions when the Brighton Atlantic will be with us in a few years time.

Regards

Pete

[hq1hitchin]

I don't think No 251 possesses any particularly holy qualities, just a shame she's not been run for so long - any mods required could, if needs be, eventually allow her to be restored to her (original) condition. Quite honestly, I doubt if 99.9% of people could care if she has slide valves or a saturated boiler or not. Let's not forget (as I did when I whinged, stupidly, to someone very senior about the fact that the HSTs needed sooo many mods to get them running properly inthe 1970s) that the A4s were constantly being modified, right up to the end, as this man so forcibly reminded me.

No doubt the Brighton Atlantic will do well, but it is not current Bluebell policy to allow their engines out on loan for main line running.

Let's try for a HST with Paxman engines then?

[f4kphantom]

These locos are there for all to enjoy, they are not deteriorating any further and if funds allow could be put back on the line. The point is that they are still being looked after and are not in some siding rotting away. It would be nice to see most of them running, Shildon '75 was a prime example. The NRM can't run on nothing and 4468 and 4472 are great revenue earners but I would hate to think of the bill for 4472s overhaul. Money aside, to replace the monobloc on Green Arrow is one big job, and the loco is still a fantastic museum exhibit. It is not broken forever, I think a solution may be found, but it isn't all doom and gloom.

[pete2hogs]

I don't think its doom and gloom anyway, to have all the wonderful locos in the national collection preserved for future generations. Far better than most of them being scrapped, which, let us not forget, could have happened in the climate of the 60's.

I don't think 251 is 'holy', it just seems to be one of the poorest candidates for restoration to main line running. The rules involved have changed substantially since she wast last revived. And, while I accept locos in service are constantly modified, she was attempted to be put back to her 'as built' condition. Do we really want the poor old warrior limping about at half power?

I talked about 'obsession' in my first posting - that was maybe harsh. But surely there are some locos that are heirlooms as they stand, and should be kept as such?

There are plenty of unrestored locos up and down the country some of which have never run in preservation that we can put our efforts in to and keep the skills alive, quite apart from any further new builds.

[hq1hitchin]

Just been down on the Isle of Wight today and picked up the IOSWR leaflet. It seems little Calbrook, the 02 and their flagship engine, is currently nearing the end of a 6 year rebuild, at the cost of £160,000! Perhaps, when it comes to getting No251 in steam, we'd better quietly walk away unless one of us has unlimited funds. Not me, at those prices! Any very rich geezers out there?