When perusing the Steam Sounds website (as you do) at:
www.steamsounds.org.uk
I came across a recording of "Blue Peter" 60532 at Durham on 1st October 1994. The recording can be heard on Volume 13, "Trains in Trouble"
The locomotive suffers a severe slipping problem.
D. Bailey was on the train and here's what he has to say about it, taken from his Steam Sounds website;
"On 1st October 1994 the LNER A2 Pacific 60532 'Blue Peter' was booked to work a train steam hauled all the way from Edinburgh to York down the East Coast Main Line.
After a fine run down the East Coast Main Line we reached Durham where we stopped in the platform to set down passengers.
As you will hear in this recording, aside from the fact that someone on the footplate had found the other whistle which would find more suitable employment as a factory siren, the departure from Durham was unexceptional until, with the train clear of the platform the driver extends the engine a little ready for the rising gradient to Relly Mill.
At this point the locomotive loses it's feet and soon is slipping uncontrollably. In the next 40 seconds or so that it took the driver to wind the reverser back towards mid gear and get the regulator closed the locomotive's motion and valve gear was very badly damaged.
Obviously we were going no further and a diesel was summoned to assist us but before the train and the crippled engine could be moved it was necessary to remove the bent and broken coupling rods. Eventually this was done and the train was drawn back into the station from where we returned to York by service train.
Much has been written about how the slip was caused and whether it was simply the speed of revolution of the wheels or water being carried over into the cylinders (which, from the sounds in the recording appears to be the case) that caused the extensive damage to the loco.
Whatever actually happened I hope never to record sounds like these again."
I know that my locomotive knowledge is slim and I am showing my ignorance here but my question is: How would the driver know what to do in these circumstances? I believe I would have shut down the regulator - but then what?? Just a little poser for you guys!
A2 Horror story
Moderators: 52D, Tom F, Rlangham, Atlantic 3279, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun, richard
-
John B
- NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:50 pm
- Location: New Zealand (ex Hornsea)
A2 Horror story
John B
There are many different stories to what actually happened, there was a topic on the Nat Pres forum that discussed it http://www.national-preservation.com/fo ... 79&start=0
-
richard
- LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
- Posts: 3385
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:11 pm
- Location: Wichita Falls, Texas
- Contact:
Yes I've seen differing stories varying from incompetence to sudden priming forcing the regulator open with such a force that it broke the driver's hand.
I've never seen anything resembling an official report, though?
The strange thing is, that I was very close to the incident but was totally unaware of what was happening!! To be fair this was a few years before my interest in trains had returned. That Saturday afternoon I was moving into new student digs on Victoria Terrace, Durham - about to start an MSc the following week. My room was right up in the rafters, and I had a good window (in the roof) that looked out over the park behind Durham Station. Looking to the right, I could see the local pub ("The Bridge"). Above that was the viaduct, and above & beyond that was Durham Cathedral over on the 'peninsular'.
We'd just finished with the landlord and the rental company - doing the room inspections,etc. I was talking to a friend (also doing the same course ), and a steam engine crosses the viaduct! Green + smoke deflectors and I couldn't tell you much more. I make some comment about "oh we're in steam excursion countries - we'll get lots of those". "Blue Peter" passes out of view to the right, and I get on with whatever I was doing. I can't have waited for the coaches to clear the viewable section of the viaduct (they probably never did - or not under steam power). I don't recall hearing any odd sounds, but I'm not sure if I'd have recognised them if I had.
Strange thing is, I never did see any more steam excursions over Durham Viaduct. I hear Blue Peter's blocking of the ECML didn't go down too well with BR.
Lots of Class 91s, HSTs, dmus (eg. Trans Pennine Express), and MGR coal (Class 37s I think, but there were probably a variety). The HSTs were damm noisy as they accelerated south out of Durham Station, and could give the heavy coal trains a run for their money in the noise department.
Richard
I've never seen anything resembling an official report, though?
The strange thing is, that I was very close to the incident but was totally unaware of what was happening!! To be fair this was a few years before my interest in trains had returned. That Saturday afternoon I was moving into new student digs on Victoria Terrace, Durham - about to start an MSc the following week. My room was right up in the rafters, and I had a good window (in the roof) that looked out over the park behind Durham Station. Looking to the right, I could see the local pub ("The Bridge"). Above that was the viaduct, and above & beyond that was Durham Cathedral over on the 'peninsular'.
We'd just finished with the landlord and the rental company - doing the room inspections,etc. I was talking to a friend (also doing the same course ), and a steam engine crosses the viaduct! Green + smoke deflectors and I couldn't tell you much more. I make some comment about "oh we're in steam excursion countries - we'll get lots of those". "Blue Peter" passes out of view to the right, and I get on with whatever I was doing. I can't have waited for the coaches to clear the viewable section of the viaduct (they probably never did - or not under steam power). I don't recall hearing any odd sounds, but I'm not sure if I'd have recognised them if I had.
Strange thing is, I never did see any more steam excursions over Durham Viaduct. I hear Blue Peter's blocking of the ECML didn't go down too well with BR.
Lots of Class 91s, HSTs, dmus (eg. Trans Pennine Express), and MGR coal (Class 37s I think, but there were probably a variety). The HSTs were damm noisy as they accelerated south out of Durham Station, and could give the heavy coal trains a run for their money in the noise department.
Richard
Richard Marsden
LNER Encyclopedia
LNER Encyclopedia
-
John B
- NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:50 pm
- Location: New Zealand (ex Hornsea)
A2 Horror story
Hi Matt & Richard,
I checked out the forum url below and it came up with some interesting contributions.
http://www.national-preservation.com/fo ... 79&start=0
The consensus on that forum seems to be that Blue Peter suffered from "priming" where water is carried over into the cylinders and prevents the regulator from being closed.
The answer according to folks on the forum was that the regulator be either pumped or opened fully, this allows the regulator to then be closed by allowing the regulator valve to sit when shutting off steam and then the drain cocks can be opened and the locomotive placed in mid gear before opening the regulator very gently again (with the drain cocks open). Opening the drain cocks would (apparently) prevent damage to the motion.
Other things could have contributed, eg. the reverser had not yet been wound back and with lots of power still going to the wheels, a big slip would then cause excess steam (and possibly water) to go out of the boiler through the superheater pipes, so causing more pressure.
Listening to the recording again it is obvious that the engine gets away well and after a while the regulator sounds though as it is eased back as the exhaust quietens and just before it's opened again there is strange sound, like two or three quick steam hisses, then the wheel slip occurs immediately afterwards.
There's lots more on that forum about the Blue Peter slip but I believe I have covered major points raised.
I checked out the forum url below and it came up with some interesting contributions.
http://www.national-preservation.com/fo ... 79&start=0
The consensus on that forum seems to be that Blue Peter suffered from "priming" where water is carried over into the cylinders and prevents the regulator from being closed.
The answer according to folks on the forum was that the regulator be either pumped or opened fully, this allows the regulator to then be closed by allowing the regulator valve to sit when shutting off steam and then the drain cocks can be opened and the locomotive placed in mid gear before opening the regulator very gently again (with the drain cocks open). Opening the drain cocks would (apparently) prevent damage to the motion.
Other things could have contributed, eg. the reverser had not yet been wound back and with lots of power still going to the wheels, a big slip would then cause excess steam (and possibly water) to go out of the boiler through the superheater pipes, so causing more pressure.
Listening to the recording again it is obvious that the engine gets away well and after a while the regulator sounds though as it is eased back as the exhaust quietens and just before it's opened again there is strange sound, like two or three quick steam hisses, then the wheel slip occurs immediately afterwards.
There's lots more on that forum about the Blue Peter slip but I believe I have covered major points raised.
John B
-
John B
- NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:50 pm
- Location: New Zealand (ex Hornsea)
A2 Horror story
Agreed Matt,
My point in raising the issue was to try and understand what I would do if this happened to me if I was driving.
The whole incident sounded quite frightening to me and I wanted to understand the reasons behind it (and the solutions of course) as quite soon I am hoping to be taking up firing and driving here in New Zealand!
My point in raising the issue was to try and understand what I would do if this happened to me if I was driving.
The whole incident sounded quite frightening to me and I wanted to understand the reasons behind it (and the solutions of course) as quite soon I am hoping to be taking up firing and driving here in New Zealand!
John B
I have a video of this very incident. You can see and hear quite clearly 60532 slipping violently. I tend to believe the priming explaination as the wheels are spinning for a very long time. (far longer than the time it would take to close the regulator in normal circumstances). Most videos I've seen of LNER Pacifics Slipping show the regulator being shut as soon as slipping begins to accur and the engine find its feet after another slip.
The wheels are spinning for over a minute (i have read that the rpm they span at was the equivalent of the loco breaking the world speed record) with the axleboxes going bright red and sparks flying like a catherine wheel. I cannot believe that the driver failed to notice this and didnt attempt to shut the regulator. Hence the priming explaination.
Apprantly the video was used as evidence so I guess some sort of Inquiry was made but dont really know the officail outcome.
The wheels are spinning for over a minute (i have read that the rpm they span at was the equivalent of the loco breaking the world speed record) with the axleboxes going bright red and sparks flying like a catherine wheel. I cannot believe that the driver failed to notice this and didnt attempt to shut the regulator. Hence the priming explaination.
Apprantly the video was used as evidence so I guess some sort of Inquiry was made but dont really know the officail outcome.
-
richard
- LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
- Posts: 3385
- Joined: Thu Sep 01, 2005 5:11 pm
- Location: Wichita Falls, Texas
- Contact:
There was a link from the site listed at the top of this page.
I can't see it now, so I think he must cycle the links to tempt people to buy the CDs. Which is fair enough.
It is a frightening sound when you imagine what is happening. The spin is fast. It isn't the usual short spin you get in movies or the latest Agatha Christie TV - no this goes on and on and seems to get faster.
Richard
I can't see it now, so I think he must cycle the links to tempt people to buy the CDs. Which is fair enough.
It is a frightening sound when you imagine what is happening. The spin is fast. It isn't the usual short spin you get in movies or the latest Agatha Christie TV - no this goes on and on and seems to get faster.
Richard
Richard Marsden
LNER Encyclopedia
LNER Encyclopedia
-
John B
- NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
- Posts: 270
- Joined: Sun Oct 23, 2005 11:50 pm
- Location: New Zealand (ex Hornsea)
A2 Horror story
Richard and rorz101uk,
Go to http://www.steamsounds.org.uk/
Click on "archive" (yellow buttons in the middle, right at the very top of the home page) Scroll down to Edition 13, page one, 60532 is listed right at the very bottom of this page.
Hope you find it ok
Cheers
Go to http://www.steamsounds.org.uk/
Click on "archive" (yellow buttons in the middle, right at the very top of the home page) Scroll down to Edition 13, page one, 60532 is listed right at the very bottom of this page.
Hope you find it ok
Cheers
John B
-
daveinstoke
- LNER Thompson L1 2-6-4T
- Posts: 99
- Joined: Tue Jan 17, 2006 4:47 pm
- Location: Stoke on Trent
This problem was more common with Banking engines. This as I have been told caused mayhem on the Lickey incline with the use of Fowler 3F Jinty's as an example. My Great uncle did it whilst driving a Jubilee and a 3F was banking him. The end result was that water was drawn through the Jinty's steam circuit & intoo the steam chest etc.
Dave .
Dave .
23rd was almost another Blue Peter Incident, with 76079 wheelslipping serverly at the top of the bank into exeter central more can be found out at http://bluearrowtsforums.info/viewtopic ... 56&start=0
Re: A2 Horror story
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E54HUQYeFNg
poor Blue peter. Is there any photos of Blue Peter after the event of 1994?
poor Blue peter. Is there any photos of Blue Peter after the event of 1994?
-
Mickey
Re: A2 Horror story
I mite be wrong but i am fairly sure that i read in one of the Railway magazines shortly after this incident happening that the driver involved in this incident claimed that he hadn't driven a steam locomotive for about 30 years until that day which seems a bit odd?.
I am proud to say that back in 1969/70 i contributed about £5.00p (which was a fair sum of money back then for a teenager) to the 'Blue Peter locomotive restoration fund' and received by return of post an A4 size publication of b/w photos of Blue Peter as well as a written piece about the locomotives history.
I am proud to say that back in 1969/70 i contributed about £5.00p (which was a fair sum of money back then for a teenager) to the 'Blue Peter locomotive restoration fund' and received by return of post an A4 size publication of b/w photos of Blue Peter as well as a written piece about the locomotives history.