60009 Livery 1950 -1955

Norman Coyne · Post by **Norman Coyne** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 6:01 am

Has anyone pictures of 60009 'Union of South Africa between these dates. All of mine are post preservation. Points I need to know are;
1. Background colour of name plate. I don't remember it being red.
2. Position of Springbok crest.
3. Position of coat of arms.
4. Shed number.

TIA

Norman

Bullhead · Post by **Bullhead** » Thu Mar 09, 2006 8:21 am

The pictures I've been able to unearth in Gavin Morrison's "Glory Days - the A4s" and the Bradford Barton "North Eastern Pacifics - a Pictorial Survey" are unfortunately all monochrome, apart from ones taken in or after the mid-60s. Nevertheless, I hope the following may be of some assistance or interest anyway.

An undated side-on shot in the latter (with the later pattern of BR totem on the tender, so just outside your timeframe) of 60009 working the down "Talisman" at Newcastle shows the nameplate with a background which is definitely the wrong shade of grey to be black and is, presumably, therefore red. The shedplate is positioned on the horizontal and vertical centre-lines of the fold-down panel below the smokebox door access plate; "Glory Days" indicates that 60009 was allocated to Edinburgh Haymarket (64B) from new until moving to Aberdeen in May 1962. This is corroborated by the 1959 Ian Allan locoshed book - again, outside your timeframe, unfortunately, but a useful pointer nevertheless.

The caption in the Bradford Barton volume says, "...note the plaque on the cab side which bears the coat of arms of the Union of South Africa. This was replaced, on the nearside cab, by a rectangular steel plate depicting a Springbok". The coat of arms is directly underneath the the second "0" in the locomotive number, which is at the normal height on the cabside. However, the colour shots I mentioned earlier show no crest, and the Springbok positioned on the mid-point of the boiler valance, below the ejector pipe and between the second and third lubricator access doors. In both cases the nameplate background is black.

I'll do a bit more digging for you this evening when I get home from work.

Post by **richard** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 3:53 am

Does "Power of the A4s" have anything in it? I don't have a copy, but I have the V2 book in the series, and this has *lots* of black and white photographs.

There's a good chance there'll be at least one of 60009 in the 1950s.

"Yeadon's" might also be worth a try - sorry I don't have any of them, so I can't even tell you which volume number to look for.

Richard

x568wcn · Post by **x568wcn** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 1:39 pm

Yeadons Vol.2 A4/W1 Class, the Vol.1 on the A1/10/3 class doesn't give a livery chart, but the A4 one does. I'll look it up when I get home and post it's livery history here!

x568wcn · Post by **x568wcn** » Mon Mar 13, 2006 6:54 pm

Yeadons says;
Garter Blue 19/04/1937
Black LNER 21/03/1942
Black NE 14/08/1943
Garter Blue 21/02/1947
BR Blue 04/08/1949
BR Green 02/10/1952

Sheded;
Haymarket 29/06/1937
Aberdeen 20/05/1952

Springbok plaque fitted 12/04/1954 at Doncaster
and was located on the pannel direcly above the center driving wheel on the boiler, half way between the bottom and the steam pipe thingy

As for tenders it had
5325 corridor 17/04/1937
5636 non corridor 05/05/1948
5591 non corridor 14/05/1948
5332 corridor 06/11/63
5484 non corridor 17/07/1966 - withdrawal

as for the name plates, not much clue is given on them, which is what I want to know, sometimes Flying Scotsman has red, sometimes black

It was the last steam engine (in normal working days) to be repaired at Doncaster on 6th November 1963, and 24th October 1964 it was the last A4 to work a train out of Kings Cross.
It had a light repair at Darlington April 1964, and worked from then to withdrawal 1st June 1966.

And as for shed plates, they are small on the photos, but the one taken after sale, it looks like it has 62A (Thornton) on the front!

Hope this helps

Norman Coyne · Post by **Norman Coyne** » Fri Mar 17, 2006 4:20 am

You guys are awesome. Thanks alot. I'm heading out for Indiana on Sunday & hoping to stop off & see 60008 'IKE' by way of a slight detour. When I get back I'll try & send photos & some of the books I have ordered may have arrived.

Post by **richard** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 10:50 pm

Norman: Photos will be great - I used to have a link to the the Green Bay website, but it wasn't that good as regards photos.

Have you seen Dominion of Canada recently? I keep hearing conflicting tales as to its current condition...

Richard

x568wcn · Post by **x568wcn** » Sat Mar 18, 2006 11:02 pm

I would like to see 60008 also, and if poss, use one on my website when I get round to building it, and credit to yourself.
Has anyone noticed, that the 6 preserved A4s are;
As built randomly in LNER Nos
4488
4489
4496
4498
4464
4468

But in BR Nos
60007
60008
60009
60010
60019
60022

4 in a row in BR Nos!

Eisenhower and Canada were only give cosmetic overhauls, and weren't they kept outside? A Sad end, they should be shipped back and looked after properly.

On that note Union Of South Africa has gone..in to thin air.
It came up to York from Kings Cross, whilst I was watching Green Arrow (on which I ended up giving up!) and went to find 60009. At the main NRM site, the gates were all open, and a nice pile of coal with the loader ready. 60009 came in to York, then backed down to the Holgate sidings, and deposited the coaches.
It then came back up, and round the back, on the station bypassing lines, (a long run proved this), and it went right up to the top of York North Yard. I then ran back to the NRM and was knackered!, and waited....and waited and was cold, and board, and the Rugby was on, so gave up on her in the end....she'll be back!
If she ever resurfaces!

Norman Coyne · Post by **Norman Coyne** » Sun Mar 19, 2006 1:33 am

richard wrote:Norman: Photos will be great - I used to have a link to the the Green Bay website, but it wasn't that good as regards photos.

Have you seen Dominion of Canada recently? I keep hearing conflicting tales as to its current condition...

Richard

Well guys we have a problem. After an ultra mild winter we are suddenly up to our proverbials in the white stuff. I had to dig my wife's car & my truck out of the driveway this afternoon (why oh why did I decide I didn't really need a 4x4) So the detour to Green Bay may have to be postponed, it all depends on conditions across the prairies. As for 60010 I'm afraid I don't make it to the froggy part of Canada very much (please excuse a Yorkshire born Albertan's disdain for anything east of Winnipeg)

I'll post what I can when I get back.

Norman

Post by **richard** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:08 pm

John Massey has just sent me an email regarding Dominion of Canada.
He was on the recent cleaning crew and reports that there was a lot of dirt and grime on the top surfaces. She has been stored under cover and is in good condition.

I've added one of John's photos to the Preservation section of the A4 page:

http://www.lner.info/locos/A/a4.shtml

Richard

x568wcn · Post by **x568wcn** » Thu Mar 30, 2006 9:13 pm

On South Africa dissapearing in to thin air.
Last Saturday it reapeared!

So all is ok again

On the subject of tenders;
Tender 5332 that it had 6/11/1963 - 01/06/1966 is the one that Scotsman had for the second tender, so South Africa had to have another one 5484 for 2 months!

But the first one she had from 17/04/1937 - 22/03/1948 is the current Scotsman one!

Norman Coyne · Post by **Norman Coyne** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 2:54 am

[quote="x568wcn"]
Eisenhower and Canada were only give cosmetic overhauls, and weren't they kept outside? A Sad end, they should be shipped back and looked after properly.

I don't know about D of C but Eisenhower is in a temperature/humidity contolled hall with a 'big boy' & a couple of others. I just got back from my trip & when I get over the transport caff trots I'll post the photos.

Norman

jdtoronto · Post by **jdtoronto** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:35 pm

Norman Coyne wrote: I don't know about D of C
Norman

Standing outside, alone and unloved. She is so higly thought of over here that she doesn't even rate a mention in theMuseum's literature.

John

x568wcn · Post by **x568wcn** » Fri Mar 31, 2006 5:52 pm

See the post from Richard further up!

richard wrote:John Massey has just sent me an email regarding Dominion of Canada.
He was on the recent cleaning crew and reports that there was a lot of dirt and grime on the top surfaces. She has been stored under cover and is in good condition.

I've added one of John's photos to the Preservation section of the A4 page:

http://www.lner.info/locos/A/a4.shtml

Richard

jdtoronto · Post by **jdtoronto** » Sun Apr 02, 2006 3:50 am

Nice that she has been taken inside again! Hopefully she can get a good restoration one day. My remark was made on the basis of a visit some eyars ago.

Richard, I notice that the link to a webshot gallery is no longer valid, when you get a chance it might be an idea to remove it.

John