King's X - Leeds before the A1s

[kudu]

According to my "First Day" allocation list for 1/1/23, Copley Hill's 43 locos included 5 D1s, 4 D2s and 2 D3s. Presumably the D1s handled the London expresses (with an engine change at Doncaster?).

But on 1/1/48, with an allocation reduced to 33, Copley Hill had a solitary V2, a pair of B1s and 2 C1s. I'm surprised the express motive power was so meagre.

Does anyone know what would be typical on London expresses in LNER days and the extent of through workings?

Kudu

[giner]

Further to that, did A4's work into Leeds very much? I dont seem to recall many photos of A4's there, it always seemed to be A1's and A3's.

[stembok]

The advent of Gresley Pacifics on trains between Doncaster and Leeds Central was delayed due to weight restrictions on the Calder Viaduct near Wakefield. The first regular visits to Leeds Central via this route by Pacifics were made in 1930, with one regular working from September of that year, part of a Grantham diagram. This lasted until 1936 when nos 2553(60054) and 2555(60056) were sent to Copley Hill for the Pullman workings to London, replacing Ivatt Atlantics. At the end of 1939 Copley Hill had two Pacifics and four at the end of 1944. By 1948 however it had none, though no doubt other sheds worked Pacifics into Leeds Central. Later the shed appeared quite well stocked with Pacifics with Peppercorn A1s and also Gresley A1s/A3s until around 1957 and for a short period C1961.
From September 1937 -39 A4s would have worked into Leeds Central regularly on the West Riding streamlined train. Post war, A4s were fairly common in Leeds Central on workings such as the down Yorkshire Pullman from King's Cross.

[37b]

Yes, in the early fifties you would see at least 1 King's Cross A4 daily on shed at Copley Hill.
I have never worked out why none were ever alocated there. We had a good team of A1's though!
Dave

[kudu]

Thanks for the replies.

I had forgotten that the weight restriction was removed as early as 1930.

There seems no obvious explanation for the dearth of express locos at Copley Hill in 1948. But Pacifics presumably headed most of the expresses as the LNER had 69 of them by the end of that year.

[Bill Bedford]

There seems no obvious explanation for the dearth of express locos at Copley Hill in 1948. But Pacifics presumably headed most of the expresses as the LNER had 69 of them by the end of that year.

I think it was because Leeds was an out and back turn for Grantham locos.

[stembok]

Though restrictions were eased on the Calder Viaduct in 1930, permitting the passage of Pacifics, it was 1936 before a more thorough rebuilding allowed the lifting of restrictions.
As Bill Bedford points out C1948 Pacific workings into and out of Leeds Central were being covered by other ER sheds. A disastrous attempt had been made to reintroduce large scale through engine workings on the East Coast in 1950, soon abandoned, due to the difficult operating conditions of that time. With one or two exceptions diagrams were then rearranged C1951 to give, where possible, out and home workings. From 1951 -C1957 the ER tried - in the main - to gather its Pacific classes at certain sheds on the ECML, so the A4s were at King's Cross, A1s at Grantham and Copley Hill, A3s at Doncaster, plus a few elsewhere and a number of A2s at New England.

[S.A.C. Martin]

Gents, this thread is a veritable treasure trove of information for me! I was aware Copley Hill never had any A4s, but am gratified to know that A4s certainly appeared there on a daily basis.

Would 60006 have appeared at 37B/56C in the 1950s (as a Kings Cross loco)? I have seen photos of 60007, and bizarrely 19 at Copley Hill, but never the latter.

[stembok]

I am sure that, like the other 34A A4s, 60006 would have made fairly regular appearances in Leeds Central. I don't have a 1950s shot, but in one of my books is a Gavin Morrison shot of 60006 leaving Central on a King's Cross express on 7th March,1962. 34A for long had a 'top link' lodging turn to Leeds on the down Yorkshire Pullman returning next day at around 09.50 from Leeds. On my first visit to Leeds Central, summer 1957, I remember seeing two A4s, 60010 and 60026.

[37b]

Here's a couple of pics of 60021 Wild Swan, one leaving Leeds Central and the other coaling at Copley Hill. Sorry I don't know the source, but the date is probably mid fifties.
Incidently, Wild Swan was the first A4 that I saw, and in the same position as the one where she is coaling.
I think she must have been the least photographed of all the A4s. Anyone know why?





Apologies for drifting the thread a bit!

Dave

[silver fox]

apparently 60018 Sparrow Hawk, is the least photographed of the A4's!

[52D]

Mr Fox I wonder if 4469 was photographed less than the aforementioned Sparrow Hawk?

[stembok]

Nice shot of 60021 leaving Leeds. Photo taken between 30/5/62 and 20/10/63 (W/D) , or possibly between 30/5/62 to 16/6/63 if she is carrying a 34A shedplate. For her final four months she was at 34E. From 30/5/62 to withdrawal she was attached to one of the 1928 batch of corridor tenders with beading, as in the photo. Previously, 4/57 to 30/5/62, she had one of the streamlined corridor type.

[silver fox]

Mr Fox I wonder if 4469 was photographed less than the aforementioned Sparrow Hawk?

quite possibly, but out of the remaining 34!

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Couple of wonderful shots of Wild Swan there, but look in the background of photo No 2, look how there coaling Wild Swan! half ton tubs?? think of the amount of manual work went into filling those tubs, a friend of mine use to work on Eastleigh's coal stage, eight hours to empty a 16 ton coal wagon, 32 tubs, just enough to fill 2 WC's or 2 A4's and with the amount of coal used in one day, on one region, there must have been thousends of these fogotten men toiling away, on dirty, rotten coal stages all over the country, for a pittence, even into the 1960's I bet there was many a shout of joy when a new coaling tower was opened.
manna