WD Austerity 2-8-0's

John B · Post by **John B** » Sat May 20, 2006 12:26 am

Does anyone know if there is a preserved WD Austerity 2-8-0 out there?

I know about the 2-10-0 Dame Vera Lynn and the Longmoor engines but I am specifically interested in a BR black example, these are the engines that used to work the heavy freight dock traffic in Hull.

The sight of one of these engines approaching a level crossing in Hull on a cold winters night with a fully loaded train was a sight to behold. The big firebox glow reflected off the huge plume of smoke and steam emitted from the chimney. Add to that the powerful beat of the exhaust and everything else that goes with a hard working engine, it made an indelible impression on me in my youth. It amounts to an evocation of all that I loved and is loved about steam engines.

Is it all JUST a memory?

Cheers

61650GTFC · Post by **61650GTFC** » Sat May 20, 2006 9:29 am

I guese at Hull you more likely saw 2-8-0 version than the 2-10-0 which where mainly based in Scotland. Theres a 2-8-0 at the Keightley and worth valley. Its actually one that was used by Swedish railways. They altered its cab amongst other things. Last I heard it was being rebuilt as a BR version with original style cab and fittings as no BR WD's survived. The 2-10-0's in existance either came from Greece or where ex army at Longmoore.

daveinstoke · Post by **daveinstoke** » Sat May 20, 2006 9:55 am

There are more surviving in Greece but can't remember if they are 8's or 10's . Rumour has it that there are still a number of Stanier 8f's in Turkey that had been converted to Oil firing but again I dont know how many still survive.
Dave.

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Sat May 20, 2006 10:05 am

The preserved WD on the KWVR was brought back from Sweden in 1973, where it had been retained as part of their strategic reserve of steam locomotives. It was brought in through Hull docks and it and its transporter caused a 2 hour traffic jam on Boothferry Bridge./ It worked for some years on the KWVR in its Swedish condition.

During its previous service life it had undergone a number of rebuilds and currently the locomotive is undergoing a major rebuild to represent a WD in BR condition. One of the major changes that was made, as I recall, was that at some stage, possibly whilst it was in use in Holland, the tender was cut down from 8 wheels to 6 wheels, presumably to fit on a turntable. This will have to be rectified.

I understand that there remains just one Stanier 8F in Iraq.

Colombo

John B · Post by **John B** » Sun May 21, 2006 11:32 am

61650GTFC,

Yes, you are correct about them being 2-8-0's in Hull, these locomotives were the mainstay over many years of the heavy freight trains to and from the docks in Hull. They were very common and there were 13 allocated to Dairycoates in 1950, 32 in 1959 and 24 in 1965, I see that there were none allocated to Botanic Gardens.

Over the years I managed to "spot" 23 of them, mostly when they were in steam and a further five "dead" ones awaiting Drapers' cutting torch.

61650GTFC and Colombo, I am really glad that the KWVR are returning one to BR condition, they are the unsung heroes of the freight world and although slow (I believe about 45mph max) they were very powerful.

When you realise that 935 were built by May 1945 (Thanks to Richard and the LNER Encyclopedia locomotive pages) then it is plain that they served a very important role during and immediately after the war when they entered BR service. I remember seeing one running light at Walton Street level crossing in Hull in the early sixties, beautifully clean and polished, though that was the exception rather than the rule.

I shall have to call in at the KWVR once I can get over to England, hopefully when the WD is operational. I always enjoyed this railway, especially with the Bronte and the "Jenny Agutter"

connections. I used to use the steam train as a means of transport to get out for a ramble on the moors and then buy a beer on the train on returning from the hills. Ah! happy days!

Colombo, I wonder if anyone would ever be brave enough to attempt to get the 8f back to the UK sometime in the future, it's not an option I'd like to take up just now!?

Cheers

61650GTFC · Post by **61650GTFC** » Mon May 22, 2006 9:26 am

I remember seeing a photo of the Iraqi 8f on the web a few months back. I cant find it now though. It was in desert sand livery and didnt look in too bad a condition. About bringing it home. I guess if it still exists it wouldnt be too hard to buy it if anyone was brave enough but bringing it back may be a problem.

i know from my interest in the military that a number of second world war american m4 sherman and m36 jackson tanks have been found there. along with m48 pattons and British Cheiftains. They where captured by the Iraqis from Iran. Many of the american tanks have been taken by the american army for restoration. I guess they have better logistics and transport than us and doubt theyd be interested in shipping a british loco!

Andrew Craig-Bennett · Mon May 22, 2006 10:10 am

I should think that the British Army will have sufficient logistical capacity - and might be persuadable, espescially if the engine was originally "one of theirs", as was perhaps the case.

61650GTFC · Post by **61650GTFC** » Mon May 22, 2006 10:17 am

I know the Brits brought back a ww2 tank they found in Bosnia so they may be willing. Anyone have any ideas who to contact?

John B · Post by **John B** » Mon May 22, 2006 10:33 am

Perhaps firstly we ought to ask the Iraqi government if they are using the loco and then if not, lets then ask them if they want to sell it and for how much? (or could we sneak it out as part payment for returning the country to democracy)

How much would do you reckon it would be worth? It would probably need a very heavy overhaul never mind the tricky bits of getting it back to original condition (and into the UK).

I'd be good PR for the forces and something a little "lighter" than getting shot at

61650GTFC · Post by **61650GTFC** » Mon May 22, 2006 10:42 am

this may be of interest

http://www.railroadforums.com/forum/sho ... hp?t=11604

I remember seeing in the news too that the Royal Engineers had repared and reopened a railway line in south Iraq.

Post by **richard** » Mon May 22, 2006 1:48 pm

There's also a Sentinel shunter out in Iraq as well. I'm not sure if it is identical, but it is definitely similar to a Y1 or Y3.

Richard

Colombo · Post by **Colombo** » Mon May 22, 2006 5:16 pm

As regards the Iraqi 8F, I understand that it may be earmarked for preservation. After all Iraq has railway history of its own and they may want to put it in a museum.

The Turkish Railway Museum has one preserved in good order and I am quite sure it will not be for sale.

There were three lost at sea in the Atlantic in 1941 and another three went down off Freetown also in 1941. They are in deep water and under those conditions the rate of corrosion is slow. They found the Titannic so who knows?

There are two in a wreck in the Red Sea in shallow water near Sharm el Sheik and a proficient Scuba diver can reach them. However the locos are incomplete and heavily damaged, but the tenders appear to be intact.

Have a look at this: http://www.scubatravel.co.uk/thsloco.html I have posted this elsewhere today, but it is an interesting find, and worth a little more exposure. I think this one seems to have taken a direct hit, the main part of the boiler is missing. The ship was hit by two 1000lb bombs and the loco is lying on the sand a little way away from the ship. The tender is shown elsewhere in the gallery and looks intact. The wreck was not found until 1955 by Jacques Cousteau and its location was not publicised until 1993; it is full of lorries, railway tanker wagons, bren gun carriers, motorcycles, torpedoes and ammunition.

Colombo

twomanydjs · Post by **twomanydjs** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 2:07 pm

John B wrote:61650GTFC,

I shall have to call in at the KWVR once I can get over to England, hopefully when the WD is operational. I always enjoyed this railway, especially with the Bronte and the "Jenny Agutter" connections. I used to use the steam train as a means of transport to get out for a ramble on the moors and then buy a beer on the train on returning from the hills. Ah! happy days!

i wouldnt come across just yet it wont be in service untill the end of the year.
Dave R

Rlangham · Post by **Rlangham** » Wed Jun 07, 2006 3:05 pm

richard wrote:There's also a Sentinel shunter out in Iraq as well. I'm not sure if it is identical, but it is definitely similar to a Y1 or Y3.

Richard

There's at least one other of an almost identical design in India at a railway museum - also there's two locomotives at Ironbridge, which were originally coalbrookdale locomotives but converted by Sentinel, I think these two now look identical to the Y1/3 class but haven't seen any photos, so if anyone's in the area....