A dream of Steam

[John B]

Okay,

This is a bit of nonsense, so here's the dream, well, my dream at least!

You are an LNER buff.

You have three or four million pounds to spare, (or however much it takes)

You want to recreate from scratch your favourite LNER locomotive (somewhat like the A1 Tornado project) to run on either the mainline or smaller branch lines .

What locomotive would you like to see built and why?

Would it be for it's rarity value?

Would it be for it's aesthetic appeal?

Would it be because it was designed by your favourite CME?

Would it be because it's powerful?

Would it be because this is the type you saw most when you were younger?

What about another A3?
What about another V2?
A4's don't warrant a mention I am afraid as there are quite a few examples still in existence.

My favourites would probably be the larger tank engines like the L1 or V1 or perhaps a non tank 4-6-0 like the B17

Why? because, they are all very attractive aesthetically, they are by CME's whose designs I really admire, they (the two tank engines) were to be found on local lines where I used to live, there are none of these classes in preservation and because the world needs more classy steam engines like these

So there it is, now it's over to you, what's YOUR dream:?:

John B

[Rlangham]

I'd go for a J21 - reasons are

1) Looks good
2) From my favourite railway company, the North Eastern Railway
3) Was in service up till the end of steam in the North East
4) Was very useful, could be seen almost everywhere in the NE
5) Would be great for todays heritage lines, capable of pulling the amount of coaches normally used, and would be perfect for the new lines cropping up in the North East because of the NER connection

[richard]

A good question John.

I think it would have to be an extinct class, with perhaps the A3 (or A1) being the only type that possibly warrants a duplicate new build purely due to fame. And then only if Flying Scotsman is stuffed and mounted!

Unfortunately the LNER has lots of extinct and worthy types to choose from.
Perhaps this is why three of the current new build projects are ex-LNER (Peppercorn A1, F5, and I heard a rumour of a G5?)

I think I would have to choose an original shape P2 - ie. Cock O The North or Earl Marischal deflectors. This would match most of your criteria: rarity, aesthetics (hence early version), and power. Even as an Express Mikado it would be unusual for the UK.


I think the other suggestions are still worthy and practical though. L1s and V1s would definitely be practical for preserved railways. I'd probably choose the V1 purely on aesthetics though. Whilst the L1 does grow on you (or did me), the V1 looks right as soon as you see it.

The B17s are a notable gap in the preserved larger LNER engines. With the B16s, they're probably the most prominent of the missing 4-6-0s. Could be a good choice for mainline and longer preserved running. They had a reputation as bad runners though - bumpy footplate ride. They might be unpopular with crews. Perhaps a 'new' football team could be persuaded to help sponsor the build?

The J21 should be practical today (albeit it with passenger-stock brakes!), and it does have good aesthetics. I would have to exclude it from my list because one exists and it is being restored to running condition.
It is surprising how many of the workhorse 0-6-0s do have good aesthetics! The J15 also comes to mind.

For new build 0-6-0s I think I would choose a J39 and J50, because both were numerous and important LNER types that no longer exist. Alas, the J50 is probably too ugly to be built!


Richard

[Colombo]

A personal favourite of mine is the Raven B16, and this is because they were extremely common around York. So common in fact that we on the platform ends on occasions used to boo when yet another one hove into sight. I feel a little guilty about that so my vote would go for a B16 to make it up to the class as a whole. The only weakness in the design was that all the three pistons drove on the same leading axle, so it was highly stressed.

More realistically, I had heard that the A1 project team were considering a P2 next, that also has my support.

Colombo

[--Si--]

I feel that another K4 should be made, there is only 1 in preservation and he are very powerful and fairly small locos, they are very good round small radious tight corners, this would be ideal for preserved railways. I also think that another V2 should be made. For green arrows bolier ticket is running out, that means that it will be in static display for another 10 years at least also i havent heard the latest, but there was a rumour of a cracked axle? can someone varify this please.

[Colombo]

The problem with Green Arrow is that there has been a mishap with the middle cylinder and the connecting rod. The NRM happen to have a spare connecting rod and the cylinder can be repaired this time.

The original LNER desiogn of the V2 cylinders consisted of a single "Monobloc" casting that incorporated all three cylinders. When these later needed renewal, BR fitted three separate cylinder castings bolted together as future repairs could then be cheaper. Locos with this feature have outside steam pipes.

Unfortuately Green Arrow is not one that was so rebuilt and so if the cylinder block is seriously damaged it will need a completely new Monobloc casting. The price for a new one would be about £100,000 according to a contact at the NRM. Therefore should the NRM risk any further damage? Perhaps it should not be used on a regular basis.

It is a fact that the NRM could order a number of monobloc castings and they would only have to pay for the setting up costs once, so the second Monobloc would be a lot cheaper. This could be the basis of another loco.

Colombo

[richard]

Yes Green Arrow's monobloc problems get to the root of the 'preserve it in original condition / keep it running' debate for both the NRM and the preservation movement as a whole.

There are a lot of options, and whatever the NRM chooses they will be heavily criticised from some quarter or another! They cannot win.

One suggestion was that they should do the multi-casting mod, and then put the original monobloc on display.

Or if they did make two, they could always put the second on display until it was required. Two brand new monoblocs could last a long time - but no doubt there will be lots of complaining by a small but vocal group of enthusiasts.

Richard

[--Si--]

tnx for the info, didnt realise it was the cylinder block, sounds like a big problem.

[John B]

Thanks to everyone for giving all your ideas and commenting on this crazy dream of mine .

It's an almost impossible task I know because there are so many LNER engines that would be good to see back on the tracks again. I wonder if I should have included "footplate crew" preferences and footplate ride/comfort as additional factors to include in any decisions made?

Thanks R. Langham, Yes the J21 is very attractive and would be good on smaller private lines. It's great to hear that the only one in existence is being brought back into service.

Richard, the J39 is a nicely proportioned locomotive and would be preferable (IMHO) to the J50, as you say the J50 is definitely "interesting" but is certainly not the most elegant design. I too read on the net about a "secret" proposal to build a new G5 , I think it was a Darlington locomotive group. I tried to find the group on the net but with no joy, I'll continue trying to find out more.

Colombo, I really do like the B16 and can see where and why they are of interest, they are powerful looking, solid and well proportioned as well as having their design well rooted in the north east. They seem to be the forerunner of so many other LNER types especially the B1's of Thompson. A P2 would also be an excellent choice too, though would you prefer an A4 type front or the deflector style? If the A1 people made one of these then I guess they would make a lot of people happy

I think I will finally plump for a Thompson L1 as my favoured Locomotive for a new build. This is an engine that could handle most traffic situations and would be great on either mainline or preserved line working and seems under represented in the preservation stakes.

It seems there are as many favourite engines as there are contributers to this forum, apart from the P2 which seems to have at least two votes.

Ho hum, we'll all have to agree on the type before we can begin to make it a reality

Any bright ideas?

[John B]

Hello Forumites,

I may have to do a rethink on my choice of an L1 locomotive as a suitable locomotive for building from scratch.

I spent the weekend reading an excellent book, "Thompson and Peppercorn Locomotive Engineers" by Col. H.C.B. Rogers and came across this interesting comment on the L1's, I quote:

"Nobody could claim that the L1's were a success. They were temperamental in their steaming and quite unreliable unless carefully handled by crews who knew them. In addition, they were expensive to maintain; the bearing surfaces in the axle boxes inadequate for the loads they had to bear and wore out rapidly. This wear, combined with the rapid revolution of the small (5' 2") coupled wheels at speed caused wear in the motion parts and connecting rods."

I thought they were quite nice looking engines too but with a write up like that by someone clearly very knowledgeable I admit defeat!

One hundred of these L1 2-6-4 tank engines were built principally to replace all of the other LNER tank engines including the V1's & V3 2-6-2's, and N2 and N7 0-6-2's

So what to attach my loyalties to now? well I won't be so hasty this time and may take some time to firm up on ideas, once a little more "education" has taken place.

Perhaps an A8, a really good solid well built NER Raven passenger tank engine with a very strong connection to the lines in my home area or maybe either the Raven B16 4-6-0 or Gresley B17 4-6-0's - all very worthy. Does anyone have any ideas what it would cost to "new build" any
of these types?

In following up on the G5 story here is what I have found, an article dated 09/11/2005 appears on the news page of Steam Railway magazine website:

http://www.greatmagazines.co.uk/store/i ... 2@11754358

The article states that a new NER G5 0-4-4T engine is being built. This is a "secret" £250,000 project being built by Darlington based Great Northern Steam (can't find any website) Steam railway magazine 316 has more info. Commissioning of some parts is about to take place.

Now I shall go and read my other new book purchase, "The Hull and Barnsley Railway", Volume 2 by Hinchcliffe

Cheers

[LNERandBR]

I personally would like to see a J39 built. My reasons are that it would be sutable for most of the perserved lines and it is an elagent machene. Also I never experenced them in the flesh as it were.

As for Green Arrow If they replaced the monobolc casting now before any major damage is done they will be able to put the original one back to return it to original condition. (Like Duchess of Hameltons cab side sheets

[Tom Quayle]

I have a few ideas of what would warrrant a good scratch build, but Iam glad that in the original post it said as much as it takes cash wise.
My 1st choice would be a Q6 or a O2 or something of those lines,
2nd being either an A5 or L1, but if the cash was there I would not mind a U1 2-8-0-0-8-2

[richard]

Welcome to the forums Tom!

The Q6s were fine engines, but the NELPG already have one. Howabout a Q1/Q2 'Long Tom' for the 0-8-0s? An O2 would be good to see as well.

The U1 may have been very powerful, but even after many trips to the works it was not exactly very successful. I doubt the current powers that be would ever let one out on the mainline! In contrast, I understand the L1's troubles were mainly of the teething variety (eg. the water tank welds), so a new build has a chance of fixing those.


Richard

[daveinstoke]

A simple humble J11.
Dave.

[cooperajn]

An original shape P2 would be quite something, but as a good NE man I would have to go for a B16. An A8 would be nice as well, OK I know they weren't built like that but so what!
B16s were just an incredibly useful loco - and like Columbo, I saw them all at York - with their 5ft 8in wheels they could turn their hand to anything.

Perhaps I could set a different challenge?
If you could only have one class of LNER locos to handle all passenger and freight, what would you choose?
(Ignoring minor issues like route availability.)

I don't think I need to state my choice - incidentally it has been said a number of times that the 5ft 8in Granges were the most useful GW engines.

TonyC