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King's Cross Outer Suburban sets 1937

Posted: Fri Oct 14, 2011 10:13 pm
by robertcwp
Does anyone know what stock was used in the King's Cross Outer Suburban sets in 1937, please?

The carriage workings list three sets and the vehicles attached to them, but do not specify the formation of the basic sets themselves. The sets worked services between Cambridge/Royston/Baldock and King's Cross.

The other suburban trains are listed simply as Bogie Suburban, which I assume were pairs of Quad-arts. Some of these also had additional vehicles attached and some workings took them as far as Baldock.

Re: King's Cross Outer Suburban sets 1937

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 8:28 am
by 2512silverfox
There was quite a variety, but the main types were the late built GN twin compo brakes to two diagrams and these covered most of the stopping services out onto the Cambridge branch. Having said that strengtheners could be almost anything and I have photos of Howlden 6 wheelers and even rigid eight wheelers still in use in the late 30's.

Re: King's Cross Outer Suburban sets 1937

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 9:56 am
by robertcwp
2512silverfox wrote:There was quite a variety, but the main types were the late built GN twin compo brakes to two diagrams and these covered most of the stopping services out onto the Cambridge branch. Having said that strengtheners could be almost anything and I have photos of Howlden 6 wheelers and even rigid eight wheelers still in use in the late 30's.
So possibly like this?
http://www.flickr.com/photos/robertcwp/ ... 1174763647

Re: King's Cross Outer Suburban sets 1937

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 11:37 am
by 2512silverfox
Train seems to have come off the Cambridge Branch and would have been typical for a stopper. The catering vehicle in rear is probably being repositioned from Cambridge. The beer trains at this stage were usually about 4 corridors including the buffet car behind either an Atlantic of a D16.

Re: King's Cross Outer Suburban sets 1937

Posted: Sat Oct 15, 2011 6:22 pm
by swhite01
The articulated pairs are probably to GN Dia 218QQ (Brake Third/Lav Composite) they were built for the KX-Baldock-Cambridges services with the working supplemented by a 5th coach. There are a number of pictures documenting the working in various GN/LNER related magazine artilces and books.

Steve Banks made some notes in his Model Rail article "Eastern Services in transition 4", December 2004 with regard to the working but modelled a different diagram of vehicle. There are also photos detailing the working and coaches in the Oakwood Book Great Northern Railway and ECJS Carriages from 1905 by Michael Harris.

The John Edgson series of Isinglass drawings also depict these vehicles with, for the drawing copies I have, comprehensive notes of vehicle workings.

Hope of help,

Steve White

Re: King's Cross Outer Suburban sets 1937

Posted: Sun Oct 16, 2011 10:27 pm
by robertcwp
I have looked at photos and DVD footage, which show varying formations and stock. What none of them does is identify what was the basic set to which vehicles were added. The carriage workings show the vehicles attached but do not give the basic set formation that they were added to. Here are the extracts from the carriage workings:

Image

The photo in my collection that I provided a link to earlier in the thread shows what appear to me to be two GNR twins. However they have different underframe trussing so may not be the same types:

Image

Re: King's Cross Outer Suburban sets 1937

Posted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:36 pm
by john coffin
i would venture that they are not converted howlden 6 or 8 wheelers, rather newer built gresley stock.

both the shape of the rooves, and the style of end would not be howlden stock. in particular NOT dia 218
i suggest you check nick camplings drawing book historic lner carriages

paul

Re: King's Cross Outer Suburban sets 1937

Posted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:45 am
by 2512silverfox
These outer suburban sets were built by the GNR in 1922 to Diagrams 218RR and 218QQ. The bodies were 55' 6 1/2" long and varied only by the number of first and third compts in the compo section. The underframe was strengthened to take the longer bodies otherwise they were to the Gresley standard outline.

There were ten sets to the two diagrams and usually worked in twos to Cambridge and Huntingdon. The extra vehicle in the photo was probably a catering vehicle being repositioned from Cambridge.

One set was damaged beyond repair at the Shepreth accident in 1928.

They were not covered in HCD Vol 1 but Isinglass covered both sets.

Re: King's Cross Outer Suburban sets 1937

Posted: Sat May 25, 2019 3:47 pm
by Atso
Sorry for resurrecting an old thread.

I'd like to thank those who contributed to/answered the original poster's question (sadly not all of whom are still with us). This has answered the same question I had about this set and I purchased the required drawings from Isinglass today at Railex.

I'm looking forward to modelling this set in the future.