Hi All,
I have been talking to a friend and member of the A4 Locomotive Society about the A4 liveries. We agree on the main liveries i.e Silver/Grey, Garter Blue, Wartime Black, but we slightly disagree on an Apple Green livery. I thought that the livery was applied to certain locomotives and officially wore this livery, however my friend says that they were painted in Apple Green as a 'trial'. Can anyone tell me was it just applied as a trial or was it applied and left on until wartime black became standard?
Regards
Karl
LNER Apple Green Locomotive
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karlrestall
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LNER Apple Green Locomotive
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Some of the green A4's also had a hideous black front, as there was concern over the green being able to stand the heat round the smokebox. This meant they didn't have the beautiful flowing sweep in the colours at the front as seen on the blue and grey A4's.
Simon
Simon
don't forget about the Great Eastern Railway
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x568wcn
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Non left the paint shop with it!
it was just Caledonian Blue, which didn't siut the Southern Railway engines, so BR Green was decided on.
And if you want to model, hows about 1949
At the beginning of May 1949, there were 4 engines in the Experimental Purple Livery, (Nos. 60024, 60027, 60028, & 60029), 4 engines in Garter Blue Livery still carrying their L.N.E.R. number and insignia, (Nos. 14, 25, 26, & 32), One engine in Garter Blue Livery carrying its temporary NºE-22, with BRITISH RAILWAYS on the Tender, and the remaining 25 were all in Garter Blue Livery, and carrying their 6xxxx Numbers with BRITISH RAILWAYS on the Tender.
All the engines, bar one, received the Blue B.R. Livery at General Overhauls, Nº60013 being the first on 20/5/1949. Two of the L.N.E.R. liveried engines followed, Nº32 on 10/6/1949 and Nº14 on 22/6/1949, and gaining their BR Nos. 60032 and 60014 at the same time. They were followed by Nº60009 on 4/8/1949, Nº60012 on 24/8/1949, Nº60023 on 31/8/1949, and NºE-22 on 16/9/1949 (also gaining its B.R. Nº60022). The next was L.N.E.R. liveried Nº26, and becoming 60026 in the process, on 23/9/1949, followed by Nº60016 on 21/10/1949, Nº60030 on 10/11/1949, No.60005 on 23/11/1949, and Nº60015 on 25/11/1949. A "Purple" Nº60029 was re-liveried on 13/1/1950, and the last L.N.E.R. liveried A4, Nº25, became Nº60025 and got the B.R.Blue livery on 27/1/1950, a full two years after the formation of British Railways. The application of the B.R. Blue Livery continued with Nº60002 on 2/2/1950, No. 60001 on 10/2/1950, Nº60021 on 31/3/1950, No.60018 on 5/4/1950, Nº60003 on 19/4/1950, No.60020 on 28/4/1950, Nº60006 on 31/5/1950, Nº60011 on 8/6/1950, and Nº60008 on 14/6/1950. The "Purple" No 60027 was next on 7/7/1950, followed by Nº60019 on 28/7/1950, Nº60004 on 10/8/1950, "Purple" Nº60024 on 24/8/1950, Nº60017 on 21/9/1950, Nº60007 on 27/9/1950, and Nº60010 on 29/9/1950. The last "Purple" Engine No. 60028 was re-liveried on 13/10/1950, followed by Nº60033 on 10/11/1950, and finally the exception to the rule, No 60034, after a Heavy Intermediate Repair, on 4/12/1950.
that would make an interesting mix
it was just Caledonian Blue, which didn't siut the Southern Railway engines, so BR Green was decided on.
And if you want to model, hows about 1949
At the beginning of May 1949, there were 4 engines in the Experimental Purple Livery, (Nos. 60024, 60027, 60028, & 60029), 4 engines in Garter Blue Livery still carrying their L.N.E.R. number and insignia, (Nos. 14, 25, 26, & 32), One engine in Garter Blue Livery carrying its temporary NºE-22, with BRITISH RAILWAYS on the Tender, and the remaining 25 were all in Garter Blue Livery, and carrying their 6xxxx Numbers with BRITISH RAILWAYS on the Tender.
All the engines, bar one, received the Blue B.R. Livery at General Overhauls, Nº60013 being the first on 20/5/1949. Two of the L.N.E.R. liveried engines followed, Nº32 on 10/6/1949 and Nº14 on 22/6/1949, and gaining their BR Nos. 60032 and 60014 at the same time. They were followed by Nº60009 on 4/8/1949, Nº60012 on 24/8/1949, Nº60023 on 31/8/1949, and NºE-22 on 16/9/1949 (also gaining its B.R. Nº60022). The next was L.N.E.R. liveried Nº26, and becoming 60026 in the process, on 23/9/1949, followed by Nº60016 on 21/10/1949, Nº60030 on 10/11/1949, No.60005 on 23/11/1949, and Nº60015 on 25/11/1949. A "Purple" Nº60029 was re-liveried on 13/1/1950, and the last L.N.E.R. liveried A4, Nº25, became Nº60025 and got the B.R.Blue livery on 27/1/1950, a full two years after the formation of British Railways. The application of the B.R. Blue Livery continued with Nº60002 on 2/2/1950, No. 60001 on 10/2/1950, Nº60021 on 31/3/1950, No.60018 on 5/4/1950, Nº60003 on 19/4/1950, No.60020 on 28/4/1950, Nº60006 on 31/5/1950, Nº60011 on 8/6/1950, and Nº60008 on 14/6/1950. The "Purple" No 60027 was next on 7/7/1950, followed by Nº60019 on 28/7/1950, Nº60004 on 10/8/1950, "Purple" Nº60024 on 24/8/1950, Nº60017 on 21/9/1950, Nº60007 on 27/9/1950, and Nº60010 on 29/9/1950. The last "Purple" Engine No. 60028 was re-liveried on 13/10/1950, followed by Nº60033 on 10/11/1950, and finally the exception to the rule, No 60034, after a Heavy Intermediate Repair, on 4/12/1950.
that would make an interesting mix
The Caledonian, or BR Express Passenger Blue, was not chosen because it showed grime and dirt which would be less visable on darker colours. It was also found difficult to patch paint with the blue colour, meaning that complete repaints would be needed, even for minor problems.x568wcn wrote:Non left the paint shop with it!
it was just Caledonian Blue, which didn't siut the Southern Railway engines, so BR Green was decided on.
Is there any other class of locomotive that can beat the number of livery variations that the A4's carried? Silver, Apple Green, Garter Blue, Black, BR Blue, Purple, Brunswick Green. (And I think 4489 was in traffic for a few weeks in workshop grey with apple green wheels.)
The Duchess class comes close with Blue, Red, Black, BR Blue, Brunswick Green and two were painted in Caledonian Blue (until Euston found out.) Was BR Red different to LMS Red?
The Duchess class comes close with Blue, Red, Black, BR Blue, Brunswick Green and two were painted in Caledonian Blue (until Euston found out.) Was BR Red different to LMS Red?
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x568wcn
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yes,
One of the stated aims was for the "new" liveries to last for 5 years between re-paints, maybe a little ambitious given the noticeable lack of cleaning at the time. The "Blue" soon began to show signs of deterioration, plus, on the Western Region, there was a distinct lack of enthusiasm for the colour, "as it did not suit their engines", so it had to go. The slightly lower power classification engines had received a "Brunswick Green" Livery after the style of the G.W.R. Livery, lined out in Black edged in Orange. This colour was less susceptible to fading, could be easily touched up and re- varnished, and was successfully in use throughout the system, so the decision was easily made to switch to the Green.
Many people make the mistake of referring to the green as G.W.R. Brunswick Green, and certainly the shade was very close. The G.W.R. (like the Midland Railway with its "Midland Red") achieved the full rich depth of colour by the application of several coats of paint, unfortunately that was not a viable proposition due to the stringent financial conditions under which British Railways operated. The Paint is best described as British Railways Green, and it probably gained a "depth" of colour if the "clear" varnish used had a slightly brownish tinge.
I don't think any class carried the variation of the A4s with 10 liveries possible, and for the record 2512 Silver Fox is the holder of the most with 8, which is all except LNER Green and Purple.
And yes 4489 Woodcock was running from 04/05/37 to 17/05/37 in temporary livery of works (not Silver) Grey, lined in white, with Green Coupled wheels, and no curve on the smoke box, but this wasn't and official livery as carried, but if you count it, then 4489 has an equal 8 liveries!
One of the stated aims was for the "new" liveries to last for 5 years between re-paints, maybe a little ambitious given the noticeable lack of cleaning at the time. The "Blue" soon began to show signs of deterioration, plus, on the Western Region, there was a distinct lack of enthusiasm for the colour, "as it did not suit their engines", so it had to go. The slightly lower power classification engines had received a "Brunswick Green" Livery after the style of the G.W.R. Livery, lined out in Black edged in Orange. This colour was less susceptible to fading, could be easily touched up and re- varnished, and was successfully in use throughout the system, so the decision was easily made to switch to the Green.
Many people make the mistake of referring to the green as G.W.R. Brunswick Green, and certainly the shade was very close. The G.W.R. (like the Midland Railway with its "Midland Red") achieved the full rich depth of colour by the application of several coats of paint, unfortunately that was not a viable proposition due to the stringent financial conditions under which British Railways operated. The Paint is best described as British Railways Green, and it probably gained a "depth" of colour if the "clear" varnish used had a slightly brownish tinge.
I don't think any class carried the variation of the A4s with 10 liveries possible, and for the record 2512 Silver Fox is the holder of the most with 8, which is all except LNER Green and Purple.
And yes 4489 Woodcock was running from 04/05/37 to 17/05/37 in temporary livery of works (not Silver) Grey, lined in white, with Green Coupled wheels, and no curve on the smoke box, but this wasn't and official livery as carried, but if you count it, then 4489 has an equal 8 liveries!
LNER Apple Green Locomotive
Muzza asked on July 18 if LMS Red and BR Red were the same. The answer is yes, they were the same colour. Midland Red was the same colour also.
I had researched this subject some years ago because a long-time friend who was Chief Mechanical Officer of a smaller railroad in the USA wanted to paint his locomotives "Midland Red". He asked me to obtain a sample of the appropriate coloured paint duing a visit to the UK. This sample could be matched by an American paint supplier subsequently. I provided my friend with a bottle of model paint to be used for such colour matching.
Sirbrian
I had researched this subject some years ago because a long-time friend who was Chief Mechanical Officer of a smaller railroad in the USA wanted to paint his locomotives "Midland Red". He asked me to obtain a sample of the appropriate coloured paint duing a visit to the UK. This sample could be matched by an American paint supplier subsequently. I provided my friend with a bottle of model paint to be used for such colour matching.
Sirbrian
Brian Scales