GNR atlantic 1910

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cornbloof
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GNR atlantic 1910

Post by cornbloof »

Here's a picture of an Ivatt atlantic 274 (what became LNER class C2). I've seen it before and indeed there was recently a postcard available of the image on Ebay published by the prolific E. Pouteau. Does anyone know the original photographer?

The reason I ask is that I found this print in a collection of photographs belonging to my great grandfather. He was a keen photographer, most active in Edinburgh before the first world war. I suppose it was possible for him to have taken the photograph himself and asked Pouteau to publish it. More likely, he bought a print of the image but I can't understand why as he had no obvious interest in the GNR. What do you think?

For interest I enclose a few Scottish photos which I'm pretty confident are his and have never been published. This is a small sample. If there's interest, I'd consider writing an article and making better use of his collection.
Attachments
GNR atlantic low.jpg
Haymarket interior low.jpg
Waverley signalbax interior 1 low.jpg
Waverley signalbax interior 2 low.jpg
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: GNR atlantic 1910

Post by Atlantic 3279 »

Interesting pictures.

For information, 274 was a large boilered Atlantic, therefore becoming part of LNER Class C1, not C2, as No 3274.
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JASd17
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Re: GNR atlantic 1910

Post by JASd17 »

cornbloof wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:24 am For interest I enclose a few Scottish photos which I'm pretty confident are his and have never been published. This is a small sample. If there's interest, I'd consider writing an article and making better use of his collection.
I very much doubt 274 is in Scotland.

It might be King's Cross before the road bridge was removed, but I am not sure?

John
cornbloof
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Re: GNR atlantic 1910

Post by cornbloof »

Firstly, thanks for remedying the error of my fat fingers - indeed class C1! 274 is on the west side of Kings Cross with Congreve Street bridge in the background (demolished by 1924). I should have appended some more information about the pictures.

The other photos depict 1) the interior of Haymarket sheds (Edinburgh). 2 and 3) the shots of the signal box pertain to Waverley station east box. The caption for the shot with signalmen reads “East cabin Waverley from west end”. The deserted frame is captioned “NBR signal cabin East end Waverley Station Edinburgh. 260 levers. Longest frame of levers in the world. From east end.”

Hope to upload some more images soon.
JASd17
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Re: GNR atlantic 1910

Post by JASd17 »

Thanks for the extra information 'cornbloof'.

Photographs of the station with the bridge are not that common, which is why I was un-sure.

It will be interesting to see any further shots.

Thanks,

John
john coffin
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Re: GNR atlantic 1910

Post by john coffin »

Whilst I don't know who the photographer was, rather like Moore pictures of the period, there were a number
employed by the various producers, it seems that this was part of a set of about 4 taken about the same period
at Kings Cross.

The bridge in the back is Battlebridge, and this is obviously before the opening of the engine servicing area
opposite the end of Platform 10, by which time the bridge had been taken down.

it is possible that the turntable, engine facility alongside the main station was still in existence at this time,
I am not sure when it was removed and replaced by the newer suburban platforms from 11-14.

Paul
Dave S
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Re: GNR atlantic 1910

Post by Dave S »

Having amassed some info what what was possibly going to be a club layout of this location I'm sure it is on the road leading to the coaling point/shed.
274 location..jpg
The servicing point was still active at this time although somewhat cramped.
Mickey
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Re: GNR atlantic 1910

Post by Mickey »

I didn't think either the GN small or large boilered Atlantics went beyond York let alone all the way to Scotland(?) although I didn't know that as a fact it's just a feeling?. Wouldn't they have 'come off' at York to be replaced by a NE loco?.

The Battlebridge road bridge at Kings Cross was why the East & West boxes had flat roofs.
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Dave S
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Re: GNR atlantic 1910

Post by Dave S »

There is a copy of the photo on Ebay as a postcard
https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/Railway-GNR- ... Swq7xamsh6

Published by
E Pouteau
231A Grays Inn Road
jwealleans
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Re: GNR atlantic 1910

Post by jwealleans »

One of the big atlantics was cut down to the NBR loading gauge at the start of ww2 and used north of Newcastle. I have one picture of it at (I think) Low Fell. The idea evidently wasn't followed up.
Mickey
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Re: GNR atlantic 1910

Post by Mickey »

It's 'the cross' alright first there's the GN somersault signals that were worked by Kings Cross west box the same configuration have been seen in other photographs plus the light engine sitting by the tunnel mouth is sitting on the 'north spur' between the Up carriage line (later Up relief line) to the left of the loco and the Up fast line to the right of the loco.
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tomburnham
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Re: GNR atlantic 1910

Post by tomburnham »

E. Pouteau was a photographer of early railway scenes and if the postcard was published by him it's likely that the photograph is one of his own. Unfortunately many of his negatives have been lost as explained in this extract from this page in the National Archives web site.

https://discovery.nationalarchives.gov. ... 44b90ee121

"Charles Clinker, historian of the GWR, was so deeply disturbed by the destruction of collections of early railway photographs by F E Mackay and
E Pouteau, which he set up LGRP with the intention that "history should not repeat itself". In June 1939 Clinker went into business with V Stewart Haram, who was to run the 'sales section' and W Vaughan-Jenkins who managed the photographic side of the new organisation. Clinker's role was to make contact with early railway photographers and persuade them to pass over their negatives to the care of LGRP, which would then sell prints to enthusiasts.
The original partnership came to an end in 1951 when Vaughan-Jenkins sold his share of the business. The archive then passed from owner to owner, including the publishers David & Charles, Real Photographs and finally, Ian Allan Ltd, from whom the museum purchased the collection and the associated rights in 1992, with the aid of the National Heritage Memorial Fund. In 1948 Clinker had expressed the hope that that his archive would come to the [then] 'York Railway Museum' and so it is perhaps appropriate that it has taken up final residence at the NRM."

Tom.
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Hatfield Shed
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Re: GNR atlantic 1910

Post by Hatfield Shed »

cornbloof wrote: Thu Apr 16, 2020 11:24 am ...More likely, he bought a print of the image but I can't understand why as he had no obvious interest in the GNR. What do you think?...
I can think of an alternative explanation. The family. "He's interested in railways, he'll like this postcard I found".

(I have a quite delightful and overall very sensible sister in law who operates on this basis. I return the compliment by sending any cheap item with an image of a chicken on it, since she keeps chooks...)
cornbloof
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Re: GNR atlantic 1910

Post by cornbloof »

tomburnham wrote: Tue Apr 21, 2020 3:19 pm
"Charles Clinker, historian of the GWR, was so deeply disturbed by the destruction of collections of early railway photographs by F E Mackay and
E Pouteau, which he set up LGRP with the intention that "history should not repeat itself". In June 1939 Clinker went into business with V Stewart Haram, who was to run the 'sales section' and W Vaughan-Jenkins who managed the photographic side of the new organisation. Clinker's role was to make contact with early railway photographers and persuade them to pass over their negatives to the care of LGRP, which would then sell them to enthusiasts...

Tom.
Hatfield Shed wrote: Wed Apr 22, 2020 10:50 am
I can think of an alternative explanation. The family. "He's interested in railways, he'll like this postcard I found".
Thanks for your thoughts.

The image in my great grandfather’s album wasn’t a postcard though but a print. Given the handwriting in which the caption underneath it was written is identical to that beneath other images he definitely took himself around 1910-1914, I would say the print was made near contemporaneously with the original i.e not post Great War. I do agree it is very unlikely he took it himself.

An acquaintance or family member could have given it to him I suppose but it seems a rather specialist gift. Postcards of trains were and are plentiful but why would anyone who wasn’t an enthusiast bandy around prints? If the actual photographer was an acquaintance and fellow enthusiast who gave it to my great grandfather as a gift, I feel sure he would have recorded his name (forgive the gender assumptions there!).

Ah well. A mystery and not one likely to be resolved easily.
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