Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

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Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by Tom F » Mon Jul 06, 2009 5:31 pm

I was wondering if anyone knows of any Photos of the CMEs that they have that they own the copyright to, or that they know of that the negatives have been destroyed so therefore the work is in the public domain!
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Re: Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by Bill Bedford » Tue Jul 07, 2009 9:20 am

TomTank wrote:the negatives have been destroyed so therefore the work is in the public domain!
This is a load of Bolxxxxx. Copyright lasts for 70 years after the death of the photographer, or 70 years after the photo was first published, if the first copyright holder was a company. Whether the negative still exists is completely immaterial.

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Re: Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by Tom F » Tue Jul 07, 2009 11:14 am

Bill Bedford wrote:
TomTank wrote:the negatives have been destroyed so therefore the work is in the public domain!
This is a load of Bolxxxxx. Copyright lasts for 70 years after the death of the photographer, or 70 years after the photo was first published, if the first copyright holder was a company. Whether the negative still exists is completely immaterial.
Little bit strong wasn't that :oops:

sorry I was told that thats all.

Ok, so the Pictures of Gresley and Thompson on this site, are they outside copyright now seen as they will have been owned by a company, the LNER?
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Re: Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by richard » Tue Jul 07, 2009 2:29 pm

As I said in a private message, I believe some are out of copyright due to age (70 years being the magic number) and some are "grey area" (ie. I'd like to replace them with images with explicit permission or ones that are definitely out of copyright). Hence most if not all of the photos of CMEs and Locomotive Superintendents from the Constituent Companies are out of Copyright due to their age.

As a general comment, most of the pictures people have offered me are from the BR or preservation eras - eras which are completely covered by copyright, and will be for a while yet!
So that is quite helpful!


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Re: Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by giner » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:00 pm

An interesting point there re. company copyright. Does the 70-year rule override company copyright, even though the LNER has been out of business for 60-odd years? Surely the LNER's copyright ceased the day the company was dissolved, unless there were clauses, possibly in the realm of intellectual property, to offset that. Would that be your 'grey area', Richard?

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Re: Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by richard » Tue Jul 07, 2009 4:31 pm

Yes there's lots of grey area - it would need a copyright lawyer to sort through it all - needless to say hiring one would make the site impossible.

My understanding is that the copyright would have passed to British Railways/Rail. Now, what happened with privatisation is something for the contract lawyers! Rights did get passed on - cf. the court case about the name rights for "Flying Scotsman" (the locomotive rights stayed with the locomotive, but the train service ended up with GNER).


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Re: Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by Tom F » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:00 pm

richard wrote:As I said in a private message, I believe some are out of copyright due to age (70 years being the magic number) and some are "grey area" (ie. I'd like to replace them with images with explicit permission or ones that are definitely out of copyright). Hence most if not all of the photos of CMEs and Locomotive Superintendents from the Constituent Companies are out of Copyright due to their age.

As a general comment, most of the pictures people have offered me are from the BR or preservation eras - eras which are completely covered by copyright, and will be for a while yet!
So that is quite helpful!


Richard
thanks Richard, I wasn't trying to ignore what you had said in PMs :)

I get confused with the copyright rules as things mean different rules in different countries,

I'm right in thinking the 70 year rule applys in the UK?

If thats the case then using the pictures of Gresley and Thompson should be fine!

I noticed in my book of Edward Thompson the same picture you have on your site Richard is used, and all it states is LNER, i.e belonging to them.
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Re: Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by Tom F » Tue Jul 07, 2009 5:42 pm

I have been having a look on here
http://www.copyrightservice.co.uk/copyr ... yright_law

it states the 70 year rule from when the person who took the photo died, but if the author is not known then it's 70 years from when the work was created,

but if the work was made available to the public, it's from the date it was first made available.

Is it made clear who took the photographs?
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Re: Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by Malcolm » Tue Jul 07, 2009 7:30 pm

Tom,

Have you seen the posting I made in this "LNER Photographs", under the heading "Gallery"?

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Re: Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by Tom F » Tue Jul 07, 2009 8:18 pm

Malcolm wrote:Tom,

Have you seen the posting I made in this "LNER Photographs", under the heading "Gallery"?

Malcolm
No I hadn't seen it, until now

Superb photograph, same old question I have to ask, who owns the copyright

I no I keep banging on about it, it's just I don't want to get done for copyright infringement
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Re: Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by Bill Bedford » Wed Jul 08, 2009 9:09 am

TomTank wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Superb photograph, same old question I have to ask, who owns the copyright
If it's an 'Official' ie taken by an LNER photographer then the copyright is owned by the NRM.

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Re: Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by Tom F » Wed Jul 08, 2009 6:44 pm

Bill Bedford wrote:
TomTank wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Superb photograph, same old question I have to ask, who owns the copyright
If it's an 'Official' ie taken by an LNER photographer then the copyright is owned by the NRM.
thanks Bill Bedford

Thats what I needed to know, I doubt the NRM would allow me to use them anyhow, so will have to do without
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Re: Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by Bill Bedford » Thu Jul 09, 2009 8:18 am

TomTank wrote:Thats what I needed to know, I doubt the NRM would allow me to use them anyhow, so will have to do without
They will no doubt allow you to use their photos, whether you will want to pay them their royalties is another matter. Unless you ask you will never know what the position is.

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Re: Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by Tom F » Thu Jul 09, 2009 10:32 am

Bill Bedford wrote:
TomTank wrote:Thats what I needed to know, I doubt the NRM would allow me to use them anyhow, so will have to do without
They will no doubt allow you to use their photos, whether you will want to pay them their royalties is another matter. Unless you ask you will never know what the position is.
have emailed them, we shall see what they say.

Thanks for letting me know Bill Bedford :)
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Re: Gresley, Thompson and Peppercorn Photographs

Post by Malcolm » Sat Jul 11, 2009 1:03 pm

Bill Bedford wrote:
TomTank wrote:
Malcolm wrote:Superb photograph, same old question I have to ask, who owns the copyright
If it's an 'Official' ie taken by an LNER photographer then the copyright is owned by the NRM.
It wasn't an Official LNER photograph.

Malcolm
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