Pre-modernisation Scene

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StevieG
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Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by StevieG » Tue Nov 10, 2009 2:53 am

Relating to a mention re (telegraph) pole routes in a post of recent hours in the "Green Arrow" topic in this "LNER Photographs" section, just thought I'd share this pic.amongst us [no Green Arrow ((no locos!)], -
- pole routes feature here (there's one along on the left - clearer if enlarged - but also there's slight indications of one on along the on the right as well!) - New Barnet's south end, looking south, approx.1968. [This is an old scan, done on a Minolta Dimage Elite Scan 5400 film scanner, so takes no heed of the good tips in previous 'Green Arrow' posts.]
Attachments
scan.Color N.Barnet Sth.vw Sth.from LocalSdg 1200dpi (slight crop'd).JPG
BZOH

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chaz harrison
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Re: Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by chaz harrison » Tue Nov 10, 2009 9:52 am

Very interesting picture StevieG.

On the left we have an older bracket (possibly GNR) which might well have carried somersault arms at one time. The wooden dolls carry two different finials.
The centre signal is a later plate and angle with tubular steel dolls.
The signal on the right (up main starter?) is another older bracket, which would have carried a semaphore arm (gallows style for sighting through the station canopies and overbridge) but now carries a colour light signal.
The stock in the siding is interesting to; a BR brake van, a Gresley teak in departmental colours, a SR 4 wheel utility and a GWR Fruit D.

More please!

Chaz

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manna
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Re: Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by manna » Tue Nov 10, 2009 10:26 am

G'Day Gents
Impressive signals and telegraph poles, a lovely winter scene, I counted 17 semaphores, any advance??
I could'n't wait for the change over to colour light signals, when on the footplate, so much easier to see but now I really miss the old semaphores, they added the one thing missing from todays railway scene 'Height' have you noticed everything today is low, the highest thing today is usually the footbridge, look at the photo above to see what I mean :?
manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.

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StevieG
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Re: Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by StevieG » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:14 am

I can give pretty much chapter and verse on the signalling if that's of interest (including how the replacement 'plate & angle' bracket came to be required to replace its predecessor) but don't ask about the vehicles. A former KX area maintenance man also once told me a great deal about old platform lights, including some uncomplimentary facts about the early flourescent one in the pic.
BZOH

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Flamingo
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Re: Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by Flamingo » Tue Nov 10, 2009 12:47 pm

New Barnet - that view brings back some memories! Last time I was at the south end there it was to see 55015 Tulyar come through on its way to Edinburgh. The time was about 0800 on a dull January morning in 1982. It wasn't even properly light, and the most noticeable item in my photograph was the loco's headlight, but the sound of that Deltic approaching New Barnet and storming through the station was magnificent. On the whole though I think I'd still prefer to turn back the clock another 25 years or so to be waiting at that south end for the evening York Goods to come past with a 50A V2.

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52D
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Re: Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by 52D » Tue Nov 10, 2009 1:16 pm

Cant fault you with choice of Deltic D9015 was always my fave, but i agree definitely better with a V2 any V2.
Hi interested in the area served by 52D. also researching colliery wagonways from same area.

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R. pike
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Re: Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by R. pike » Tue Nov 10, 2009 4:25 pm

manna wrote:G'Day Gents
Impressive signals and telegraph poles, a lovely winter scene, I counted 17 semaphores, any advance??

manna
18... there's an upper quadrant disc to the left of the concrete sleepered line.....

Bryan
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Re: Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by Bryan » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:11 pm

I have a copy of a 1935 pole route transposition diagram. 35-ES-371
Showing which wires to move to different positions at varying intervals depending on which arm they are carried on.
eg. Arm 1 wires move every 2 miles whereas the 4th arm changes at 1/4 mile intervals mainly and occaisional extension to 1/2 mile.

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R. pike
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Re: Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by R. pike » Tue Nov 10, 2009 8:14 pm

Does the diagram give the circuit names?

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61070
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Re: Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by 61070 » Tue Nov 10, 2009 11:24 pm

StevieG - your 'chapter and verse' on the signalling in your photo would be appreciated by me, for one. Are we to understand that 'a little accident' befell the predecessor of the more modern bracket arrangement??
Bryan wrote:I have a copy of a 1935 pole route transposition diagram. 35-ES-371
Showing which wires to move to different positions at varying intervals depending on which arm they are carried on.
eg. Arm 1 wires move every 2 miles whereas the 4th arm changes at 1/4 mile intervals mainly and occaisional extension to 1/2 mile.
Excuse my ignorance guys, but can someone say why? I'm intrigued. The only thing I can think of is to reduce interference through 'mutual inductance' between the wires - is that right? Why, then, different intervals for different wires? It seems to me that on the railway there's more to almost everything than the casual observer appreciates.

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Re: Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by Ferrybridge Flyer » Wed Nov 11, 2009 11:39 am

Looks nippy there!
Bring back Ferrybridge station!

Bryan
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Re: Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by Bryan » Wed Nov 11, 2009 7:17 pm

Does the diagram give the circuit names?
Not that I can see but then I am really a PW man not S+T.
The Full Title is " LNER NE area. Diagram showing TRANSPOSITION SYSTEM For Erecting Telephone Wires. Drawing Number 35-ES-371 Dated Dec 35 Engineers office York
I wiil try and extract it from the other 100 or so drawings in the book and photo it and post it.
The book it is in appears to be a purpose made pocket book of at the time common wiring circuit drawings other ones include Block instruments, Telephones, Key Token machines and Switching out apparatus diagrams
Excuse my ignorance guys, but can someone say why? I'm intrigued. The only thing I can think of is to reduce interference through 'mutual inductance' between the wires - is that right?
I would assume so. I know that with explosives and electrical detonators the cord is twisted to reduce RF Radio Frequency hazard.

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manna
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Re: Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by manna » Wed Nov 11, 2009 9:02 pm

G'Day Gents
Err--which line has concrete sleepers, can't see the sleepers for the snow? :?
manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.

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Re: Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by giner » Thu Nov 12, 2009 5:03 pm

Speaking of telegraph poles and their non-existence today, here's a photo (I know it won't win any awards:D) taken from the observation car going through the Fraser Valley en route from Edmonton to Vancouver. As you can see, just, the poles are still there in decrepit state and long disused. Actually, these ones, being upright, are the exception. But look how close together they were placed.
Vancouver May 20009 134.JPG

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StevieG
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Re: Pre-modernisation Scene

Post by StevieG » Fri Nov 13, 2009 1:16 am

61070 wrote:StevieG - your 'chapter and verse' on the signalling in your photo would be appreciated by me, for one. Are we to understand that 'a little accident' befell the predecessor of the more modern bracket arrangement??
Bryan wrote:I have a copy of a 1935 pole route transposition diagram. 35-ES-371
Showing which wires to move to different positions at varying intervals depending on which arm they are carried on.
eg. Arm 1 wires move every 2 miles whereas the 4th arm changes at 1/4 mile intervals mainly and occaisional extension to 1/2 mile.
Excuse my ignorance guys, but can someone say why? I'm intrigued. The only thing I can think of is to reduce interference through 'mutual inductance' between the wires - is that right? Why, then, different intervals for different wires? It seems to me that on the railway there's more to almost everything than the casual observer appreciates.
Well I thought I'd now be posting the signalling etc. 'answer' as requested, and at some length.

But having spent about 3 hours carefully composing it all, pressing 'go' has just made the bl***y lot vanish into the ether, substituted by the 'Login' page re-appearing, and I've been unable to find a way of retrieving it!

Anyone know if there's a time limit on being logged in / compiling a post to, this Forum ???!!!

May have another go at writing it up, when I feel like it, and have the time.
BZOH

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