Returning to Grantham

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stembok
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Re: Returning to Grantham

Post by stembok »

Coincidentally, there was a televison programme on 'The Lady' magazine two or three weeks ago. The new incumbent as editor being Rachel Johnson, sister of Boris. She has evidently been parachuted in, despite little editorial experience, in an attempt to arrest falling circulation figures and revenue. Sort of a mini Beeching!
mr B
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Re: Returning to Grantham

Post by mr B »

Some body mention my name ?
3782853614_e9f7ccd9d5_o.jpg
Well done myself, first picture now where's that Q6 ....

Mr B .. Breaching Beeching !
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manna
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Re: Returning to Grantham

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents
A ....What!, you all want to come over, for a holiday, Err.. Yeah, start packing, I'll cut the grass, so you'll have somewhere to park your tents, and I'll clean up the 'barbie'?? nice here at the moment, 22/25c, bit of rain, still nice though, then we can wander round the paddocks and see if we can find any of those old washing machines, that are covered in soot :mrgreen:
manna

The O2's are coming--the O2's are coming :lol:
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Re: Returning to Grantham

Post by 52D »

Quit whingin Manna its a well known fact that there are more RODs in Oz than in the UK. Can you not be happy with alternate LNER 2-8-0s.
Hi interested in the area served by 52D. also researching colliery wagonways from same area.
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manna
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Re: Returning to Grantham

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents
Not whingin...well maybe! the O4's are as far away from me as Madrid is to you, can't pop over and see them whenever I want, not as interesting as a O2, pity they did'nt save one of those, 3 cylinder goods engine, not that many around, but Bachmann, won't be bringing one of those out in a hurry :mrgreen:
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61070
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Re: Returning to Grantham

Post by 61070 »

By the time we began to visit Grantham regularly in spring 1962 the only engines we saw of GNR origin were the express passenger A3s (originally A1s) and the heavy goods O2s. Dating to approximately the same era, both were 3-cylinder designs equipped with conjugated valve gear. As manna says, the 3-cylinder heavy goods engine was quite rare in the UK. The ex-NER Q7, and each engine unit of the U1 Garratt, being other examples that spring immediately to my mind.

There had been O2s at Grantham shed for many years, largely used on the ironstone traffic which originated from quarries and mines situated on a goods only single line branch which joined the ECML at High Dyke, a few miles south of Grantham just north of Stoke Tunnel. ‘High Dyke’ is the local name for Ermine Street, and the High Dyke sidings and junction were at the point where the East Coast Main Line crosses the course of the Roman road between London, Lincoln and York.

Known as 'Tangos', O2s were powerful machines (class 8F) and, so far as I can gather, they were generally popular with the men. To me, in appearance they had a purposeful air about them and a certain rugged charm - even grace. Perhaps this had something to do with the curved uplift of the running board over the coupled wheels, a feature they shared with the more glamorous A3s, V2s etc. New batches were built with detail differences, and various alterations and reboilerings took place, leading to several sub-classes (I've identified these from an Ian Allan abc as I don't have the more comprehensively researched works - apologies if they are wrong). The last of Grantham's O2s were employed on the ironstone trains until the closure of the shed in September 1963.

1. On an evening in late June 1962 63935 of class O2/4 leads another O2 south towards High Dyke.
When I showed this picture to some retired Grantham footplatemen and others there was some discussion about the reason why these two locomotives were working to High Dyke facing in opposite directions. One of the men, who worked as a Fireman at Grantham and had many trips up the branch on 'O2s', explained that 63935 nearer the camera would most likely be going to pick up a loaded train for Scunthorpe at the sidings, returning along the main line chimney first. The rear locomotive, which is equipped with tablet catchers on the front of the tender, will probably work chimney first up the branch with empties, returning to the sidings with a loaded train. A tablet catcher was a very desirable facility on the branch because there was a single line tablet exchange point at a dip in the line, where trains would gather speed travelling downhill to help surmount the gradient beyond. Without the equipment, exchanging tablets manually at this point required alertness and skill and, because the branch mineral trains often had a relatively inexperienced fireman aboard, the first attempt was not always successful. If the exchange was missed the fireman was not popular with the driver and the guard, because the train had to stop part way up the steepest part of the branch and then set back through the dip and back up the other side so as to take another run at the bank. Thus men working the branch preferred a locomotive fitted with automatic exchange equipment if one was available.

2. & 3. O2/1 63931 reverses through the station northbound and, later in the afternoon, returns with a train of empty iron ore tipplers. This engine is also fitted with automatic tablet exchange equipment. Look at that expanse of nice, fresh light-coloured paint which has just replaced the drab green of the steam era. Smutty steam locos like 63931 just didn't care, did they? 27th June 1963.

4. Since O2s feature in only a few of my father's pictures I'm including this scene at the front of the 'new shed' at Grantham which includes O2/2 63940's cab – and the figure of a 'mystery woman' retreating on the far left. 1st August 1963.

There is also a distant O2, possibly 63963, in the view of Grantham shed yard at the-thompson-l1-2-6-4t-tank-locomotives-t3026s30.html

5. That's yer lot so, five years on, here's one of the O2s' successors stopping for a crew change. 30th August 1968.

Postscript: in March 1963 O2/4 63982 was broken up in a Grantham scrapyard. The Grantham Journal reported on 8/3/1963 that its purchase by the local scrap dealer was 'an experiment which may lead to something bigger – including jobs for a few more of the town's unemployed. … The firm have been in business in Grantham for about two years, but this is the first time they have taken on breaking up something as big as a railway engine. ... The task of breaking up the loco presents new problems to the men on the job, but those involved were delighted with her when she moved in. [sounds a bit like they thought she was their new girlfriend!]' In the event, 63982 may have been just a bit too tough for them as it was the only loco to be scrapped by the firm. The F.C. Larkinson scrap business at the old Grantham Canal Basin was never to become a Ward's or a Woodham's.
Attachments
12 Grantham D1506 1968-08-30.jpg
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26-Grantham63931.jpg
18-Grantham63931-w.jpg
19 Grantham 63935.jpg
Last edited by 61070 on Fri Apr 09, 2010 11:13 pm, edited 3 times in total.
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Flamingo
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Re: Returning to Grantham

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61070 wrote:Postscript: in March 1963 O2/4 63982 was broken up in a Grantham scrapyard. The Grantham Journal reported on 8/3/1963 that its purchase by the local scrap dealer was 'an experiment which may lead to something bigger – including jobs for a few more of the town's unemployed. … The firm have been in business in Grantham for about two years, but this is the first time they have taken on breaking up something as big as a railway engine. ... The task of breaking up the loco presents new problems to the men on the job, but those involved were delighted with her when she moved in. [sounds a bit like they thought she was their new girlfriend!]' In the event, 63982 may have been just a bit too tough for them as it was the only loco to be scrapped by the firm. The F.C. Larkinson scrap business at the old Grantham Canal Basin was never to become a Ward's or a Woodham's.
An interesting story with certain similarities to what happened with Woodhams at Barry, but also illustrating things which made all the difference. Woodhams too found scrapping engines more difficult than was perhaps envisaged when they started. buying them, and at one time they considered pulling out of the market for locos. It was not simply a case of firing up the cutting torches and getting on with it; locos contained several different types of metals such as copper, brass fittings, bearing alloys etc in addition to the heavy ferrous castings, forgings and steel parts. The hazards represented by potentially dangerous materials such as asbestos in boiler laggings came later. To get the most scrap value from the work each of these different metals needed to be separated and dealt with individually. This took longer and reduced throughput, so delaying any return on the purchase outlay. At Barry Woodhams had ample space available so the engines were simply left where they stood while the men got on with contracts for breaking wagons and rolling stock. There were vast numbers of such vehicles to be dealt with, enough to keep the firm fully occupied for many years and providing them with a much faster return on investment. Fortunately this also allowed time for the railway preservation movement to get going and save virtually all the engines that lasted at Barry after 1965.
stembok
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Re: Returning to Grantham

Post by stembok »

61070: another selection of photographs full of railway interest. Large scale railway and industrial operations such as the High Dyke -Frodingham workings which flourish, disappear and are now merely a footnote in industrial archaeology. The Frodingham-High Dyke workings were evidently hard work, but money sweetens labour and they were reportedly good money earners for the engine crews involved. My own personal experience of 02s was very much a nodding one, with York being our nearest place to actually see one, though I did enjoy a short footplate ride on one at Retford GC in April 1963. The O2 was a powerful,sure footed, machine with a good brake and drivers' comments were generally favourable. Firing skills were, however, at more of a premium than on WDs or 04s and they were perhaps less popular with some firemen, particularly if inexperienced or presented with poor coal. The 02s in your photographs were probably in general fairly run down given their short life expectancy. Incidentally, another consideration for the direction - smokebox or tender first -the locomotives worked on the High Dyke branch itself was the stiff gradients encountered and the enginemen being mindful of keeping the crown sheet of the firebox covered on these.
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manna
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Re: Returning to Grantham

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents
I'm in Heaven now :D 8) Thank you 61070, great shots, first time I've ever seen two loco's coupled like that on the mainline, usually, tender to tender?? Two wonderful pic's of O2's going about there everyday jobs, Then there's 'Knight of Thistle' in company with a GN cabbed O2, would'nt have been many of them left by that stage, but all five have GN tenders, could it be something to do with curves on the branch,or just luck?
The first time I worked to Doncaster, in 1971, High Dyke yard was still there, and I think still had wagons in it, after that it turned into a rusty railed empty yard, then it was cleared, slowly turning into a wood?? I wonder what it is now?? Bit to remote for a housing estate, although.... Last time I came past it (1991) you could still see the branch curving off behind the trees!
Thanks again, helps keep the memory sharp.
manna
PS Did like the model of High Dyke, in one of the model mags back in the 80's
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Re: Returning to Grantham

Post by mr B »

Heres a nice clean willy dee for mana, not even fitted with a shed plate, sorry about quality copy from slide(wall screen).
Image.jpg


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Re: Returning to Grantham

Post by giner »

Ye gods! Dubbers had a red bufferplate? Who knew?!
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61070
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Re: Returning to Grantham

Post by 61070 »

Thanks for the comments on the O2 pictures.

Stembok, I'm sure you're right about the preferred working of the branch in the chimney first direction outward. If, as I suspect, the steepest gradient was rising in the outward direction, then chimney first working would present the lesser risk of uncovering the firebox crown. I'm told that Colsterworth was known, by those who worked on the branch, as 'The Hole' because of the steep 1 in (c.)30 inclines either side, and the whole branch was referred to as 'The Alps'.

I believe drivers would overlook many a fault on a class of locomotive, especially heavy goods and mineral engines, if they had 'a good brake' - and who could do anything but agree with them on this? The thought of hundreds of tons of deadweight pushing you downhill (or even on the level, or uphill) towards oblivion, and not being sure that you could stop it in time, must have been quite a sobering one. Relating to this, another comment that I've heard about these workings is that once they had the train rolling from High Dyke, and assuming a clear road and a free-running train, they required little in the way of steam as far as Newark (19 miles distant and 300 feet lower) as it was nearly all favourable grades and either straight track or large radius curves.

The High Dyke branch closed with the final quarries in 1973 so it was still in business in 1971 as you recall, manna. I believe the sidings area is still scrubland. A steel girder bridge that took the branch over the dual carriageway A1 near Colsterworth disappeared not long ago as part of road improvements.

There are some photos of the branch operating in the late '60s-early '70s at http://daveseastmidlandsandlincsrailway ... 71770.html

... and of its archaeology since abandonment at: http://www.geograph.org.uk/search.php?i=11896465

There used to be a photo on the website of The Grantham Journal showing 63982 in Larkinson's scrapyard. I printed it off for my records a while ago, but they have taken it off the site now - this is always going to be a a problem with internet sources. The photo had been sent in by one of the men who scrapped the engine, who was 19 at the time. He said "We were promised dismantling 63982 was the start of a lot of jobs - but all the other locos went to Doncaster." He also said that the firm was taken over by TW Ward 'who had the Dysart Road railway bridge [the rail access to their yard] dismantled one Saturday night'. Perhaps the common tale of ruthless elimination of competition.
Last edited by 61070 on Wed Apr 14, 2010 9:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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manna
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Re: Returning to Grantham

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents
Interesting pics those, would have made a good preserved line, but High Dyke's a bit remote, plenty of space though??
manna
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Re: Returning to Grantham

Post by 61070 »

Those scenes of a grimy 63931 against the backdrop of a freshly repainted station brought to mind improvements being made in the station's facilities around that time.

This topic having been graced with a photo of Dr. B (courtesy of mr B - thank you sir!), it seems appropriate to mention that on Friday March 29th 1963 the front page headline of The Grantham Journal, the town's weekly paper, was Grantham is "as you were" under the Beeching Plan. Beeching's report The Reshaping of British Railways had been published two days previously and, aside from some closures that were already in the pipeline, it appeared to local journalists that Grantham's passenger services would be relatively unaffected. In fact there was even an upbeat end to the report:

Station Developments
Should there be any uncertainty in anyone's mind about the station's future, it can be quickly dispelled by the current improvements now being carried out, which are scheduled for completion by May 1st.
[They didn't quite make that deadline – see below.]
Painting work on the improvements has been nearly completed, together with the installation of new heating and lighting at the ticket barrier.
Also arrived at the station this week is the latest model in ticket printing machines, costing over £6,000. This machine can instantaneously print and account tickets for any one of 1,500 different destinations.


'OK, we've admired the new paintwork being spoiled by smuts from an O2,' I hear you say, 'So what about the ticket office and barrier?'

'Follow me!'

1. The new ticket office on April 30th 1964, about a year after it opened. The booking clerks are Peggy Wright and Tom Bradbury.

Equipment includes a blend of the traditional with the modern. The AEG ‘Multiprinter’ ticket printing machine on the right has replaced racks of pre-printed tickets which used to line booking office walls. The machine printed tickets of the traditional ‘Edmondson’ card type as required. Before being issued, the tickets were dated with an old dating press seen near the circular window.

With thanks to David Harman of the Transport Ticket Society (http://www.transport-ticket.org.uk/) for identifying the Multiprinter machine, in response to my enquiry, as follows:
The machine is an AEG Multiprinter - which printed tickets on blank cards. BR had a a number of these expensive machines (marketed in the UK by Westinghouse-Garrard), and they were located at the bigger stations. The Eastern, London Midland, Western and Scottish Regions had them. They contained hundreds of individual printing plates, and the one required was selected by moving the carriage such that the two lines intersected on the schematic map. A blank card was inserted and the large button/lever pressed, whereupon the ticket was printed.
The idea was quite an old one, the Regina machine was tried at Snow Hill (Birmingham, GWR) in the early 1900s. The Regina's makers were later taken over by AEG.
The Multiprinters gradually disappeared in the run-up to conversion to APTIS.

This new ticket office was opened on Sunday 19th May 1963. It was part of a programme of station improvements envisaged in the BR Modernisation Plan of 1955, which advocated the improvement of passenger facilities across the railway system.

Two days earlier, on Friday May 17th, The Grantham Journal reports:

Rail station's new look
Re-designed ticket office comes into use on Sunday

Grantham railway station is now taking on a new look. It is in the process of being repainted, and at the same time the ticket and enquiry offices have been entirely re-designed and re-equipped, and will be brought into use on Sunday.
The new ticket office has two booking windows, an enquiry lobby and adjoining messroom.
The clear glass screen is fitted with 'Melaphone' speaking windows at the booking positions, and the office is furnished throughout with standard steel unit equipment, giving the advantage of wide adaptability, tidy appearance and easy maintenance.
The ticket issue will be mechanised, and the office is equipped with a Multiprinter Major Ticket printing, issuing and accounting machine.
This machine is capable of printing 1,260 different tickets from 'blanks' in various colours, and will give full mechanisation of ticket issue at Grantham except for 'blank' and season tickets.
The machine will enable the station to dispense with their large stocks of pre-printed tickets and eliminate the old, laborious and time-consuming process of calculating the value of tickets sold.
A totalisor amount of the cash value of tickets printed by the machine can be obtained within a few minutes, and an individual record of each ticket is concurrently printed at time of issue.


2. The shift of a station Ticket Collector could be a long and cold one. Here's the new enclosed and heated booth, complete with trendy swing doors! April 9th 1964.

3. Another Ticket Collector, who's wearing an A4 lapel badge. Perhaps he was one of the more 'spotter friendly' ones? As we got to know the staff at Grantham we were waved through the barrier, but at other stations, especially when I went on my own or with friends, there were ticket collectors who let you through with just a cursory glance at your platform ticket, those who clipped your ticket at the appropriate time of entry on the side and warned you not to stay beyond the hour allowed, and others who refused to let you on, sometimes after you'd paid 2d for your ticket. Early/mid June 1963.

4. This is another of my favourite photographs. Taken shortly after 3 above, it’s a real early 1960s period piece: the young woman passenger with her stylish ‘hairdo’ and coat (yet well-worn suitcase); the Ticket Collector in his traditional railway staff uniform with waistcoat, shiny metal buttons and peaked cap; the young man in bib-and-brace overalls with pop star influenced hairstyle, idling away a few minutes looking on. Early/mid June 1963.

5. Wot, no loco photo? Can't have that. Here's Grantham shed's St. Simon in a picture taken later on the same day as 3 & 4 above. It had brought in a class 5 freight from the south, turned on the shed triangle and appears to be heading briskly back in the direction of Peterborough. It shows signs of having been prepared for special duty some time before.
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32-60112-Grantham.jpg
24-TicketCollector-Grantham-w2.jpg
22-TicketCollector-Grantham-w.jpg
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07-Grantham-BookingOffice-rescan.JPG
Last edited by 61070 on Tue Apr 13, 2010 10:27 pm, edited 2 times in total.
stembok
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Re: Returning to Grantham

Post by stembok »

61070: ah ah! Spotted at last the famous sixties 'beehive' as modelled by the young lady. Often kept in place -so I'm told on good authority- with copious amounts of hair lacquer.
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