Computer Coloured Monochrome

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Darwin4975
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Re: Computer Coloured Monochrome

Post by Darwin4975 » Wed Nov 07, 2018 8:47 pm

As promised, from another Venn neagtive. The photograph taken at Kings Cross in 1937.
8787 KX '37.jpg
The Royal Claud is arriving with a non-royal working from Cambridge. Any information regarding the train would be welcome.
8787 KX '37 detail.jpg

jwealleans
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Re: Computer Coloured Monochrome

Post by jwealleans » Thu Nov 08, 2018 11:52 am

The obvious answer would be a Cambridge Buffet express. There is some ex-GN stock visible, but none of the window arrangements look like the Buffet Car conversions to me.

I've read somwehere what 8787's usual diagram was when not working the Royal Train, but I can't bring to mind where that was - a Greenie, perhaps?

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Re: Computer Coloured Monochrome

Post by JASd17 » Thu Nov 08, 2018 1:08 pm

Jonathan,

The trains in the green books are the 1.55pm ex-Cambridge Up and 6.55pm Down. The Green book describes the 1.55pm as a slow train, not really the case by 1937.

This train No.538 Up was 2.4pm ex-Cambridge later in the 1930s. It was not a Buffet Car train, but could have a reasonable load, FG notes up to 10 carriages, but more usually 6-8. Arrival at KX was 3.29pm. On Saturdays it started at Hunstanton.

The 6.55pm (Train 694) Down had Outer Suburban Train No. 2 as its load. 4 x twins.

John

Chas Levin
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Re: Computer Coloured Monochrome

Post by Chas Levin » Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:36 pm

Hello, I'm a latecomer to this thread but I've read right through it over the last couple of weeks and greatly enjoyed your superb work!

There will always be differing opinions on this sort of thing but I'm firmly on the side of it being a thoroughly worthwhile and historically illuminating contribution. While we can never know for sure what the cameraman saw on the day (and we should therefore approach colourisation with that in mind), monochrome lacks a certain degree of realism compared to the colour world most of us inhabit and therefore these images help bridge the gap a little, giving us some sort of closer sense of connection with the subjects. There is such a small number of contemporary LNER colour photos available (Big Four and LNER Locos are indeed wonderful, but finite) so this process seems like a great way to enlarge our 'non-mono' knowledgebase.

And aside from that, they can also be enjoyed as wonderful railway eye-candy :D

Thank you for sharing them with us.
Chas

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2392
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Re: Computer Coloured Monochrome

Post by 2392 » Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:37 pm

Chas Levin wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:36 pm
...... While we can never know for sure what the cameraman saw on the day (and we should therefore approach colourisation with that in mind), monochrome lacks a certain degree of realism compared to the colour world most of us inhabit and therefore these images help bridge the gap a little, giving us some sort of closer sense of connection with the subjects......
OK Chas I've edited your reply in order to take less space and make my response more relevant. I quite agree colour can make quite a difference, though by the same token black & white can too. For instance the film Schindler's List looks stunning having been shot in Black & White when you take into account the subject of the film. Stephen Spielberg made the decision to shot it that way precisely for that reason.

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Re: Computer Coloured Monochrome

Post by Chas Levin » Mon Mar 25, 2019 6:14 pm

2392 wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 3:37 pm
Chas Levin wrote:
Fri Mar 22, 2019 2:36 pm
...... While we can never know for sure what the cameraman saw on the day (and we should therefore approach colourisation with that in mind), monochrome lacks a certain degree of realism compared to the colour world most of us inhabit and therefore these images help bridge the gap a little, giving us some sort of closer sense of connection with the subjects......
OK Chas I've edited your reply in order to take less space and make my response more relevant. I quite agree colour can make quite a difference, though by the same token black & white can too. For instance the film Schindler's List looks stunning having been shot in Black & White when you take into account the subject of the film. Stephen Spielberg made the decision to shot it that way precisely for that reason.
Hello 2392, I'd certainly agree about the impact of B&W in cases such as your example - and the single coloured item, the little girl's red dress, also has great impact because of the monochrome context.
But I'd like to suggest that the two cases are a little different: Spielberg played on our familiarity with B&W WWII footage and used colour (or the absence of it) for dramatic purposes. Also, he dealt in that film with a period (WWII) for which we have a huge amount of original colour material and no-one's in any doubt as to the precise shade of grey or green on a particular uniform.
In our case we are partly concerned with establishing some accuracy over contested opinions (was this loco lined? Was that one Darlington or Doncaster green?) and with supplementing a sadly tiny amount of original colour pictures and an even smaller amount of film.
Interesting point though - similar to the way B&W photography is still used as a creative medium long after colour became standard...
Chas
Chas

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Re: Computer Coloured Monochrome

Post by 2392 » Mon Mar 25, 2019 8:26 pm

True Chas! And to use a most suitable term [considering the names of some of Gresley's Pacifics] I feel it's a case of "horses' for courses!" :wink:

Darwin4975
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Re: Computer Coloured Monochrome

Post by Darwin4975 » Fri Apr 05, 2019 10:19 pm

My visits to the Forum are few and far between these days but it is always interesting to read the views of others. The first thing I would say is that nobody is holding a pistol to anyone's head to inspect these images. They are nothing more than an attempt to create an impression of how it might have looked at the time. They are entirely subjective, and if anyone is not happy with that, the remedy is simple. Look elsewhere.

Having been an active railway photographer in the 1950s when steam reigned supreme I can claim first hand experience of the subject having spent many happy hours with my camera at the lineside in all parts of the country. Nearly all my photographs were taken in black and white as I could not afford colour film at the time. Many of them, for a variety of reasons are still best seen that way and I wouldn't consider giving them the colour treatment. There are in fact very few b/w pictures which are really suitable as the demands are very limiting: if the scene is not colourful there is no point in getting started. The original needs to be razor sharp, lacking in grain, correctly exposed and developed. Decent contrast but certainly not too much. If that isn't enough the last hurdle is that the original scan should be of negative, not a print. A print is never as good as the negative from which it was made, as some detail is always lost in both highlights and lowlights (not to mention the variability of enlarger focussing). Getting hold of suitable negatives or scans of them is not easy (or cheap) but I have been fortunate enough to have access to negative images held at the NRM and in the Hulton collection (currently housed by Getty Images). It has been an uphill struggle over a number of years to overcome the prejudices of Editors, but I am gradually beginning to make headway. If you are passing W H Smiths in the next week or two, look out for the feature in this month's Back Track (which includes two A4s in LNER livery) and another ex-LNER colourised image on the front cover of this month's Railway Bylines (Irwell Press). Last year colourised images (not LNER) were used on the front and back covers of A.J.Mullay's book 'Grouping Britain's Railways' (No 7 of Railways in Retrospect.)
Screen Shot 2019-04-05 at 22.04.56.png
I have no problem at all with black and white photographs. It is the only suitable medium for dull day photography. Colin Gifford's work would never lend itself to colourisation, but there are some negatives out there from the 1930s and earlier (just a few) which really deserve the colourisation treatment and I am trying to hunt them down.

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Re: Computer Coloured Monochrome

Post by 65447 » Sat Apr 06, 2019 8:48 am

Why on earth are we required to adopt the blatant Americanised word when 'coloured' has served for decades? My parents had specific photographs that were coloured by hand, now they are coloured by computer. Coloured is even used in the thread title (and please don't go and change it!).

Darwin4975 hasn't mentioned it but I will note that one of his coloured images was used in the recent LNER Society Journal No. 76., where the caption describes it as 'computer coloured'.

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Re: Computer Coloured Monochrome

Post by STAFFORDA4 » Thu Jun 13, 2019 2:37 pm

Ref CCB Herbert
I mentioned this chap a while back as possibly ‘the man on the roof’ at KGX
I’ve just discovered a couple of Ian Allan booklets featuring his work, published around 1947
They’re approx 6 x 4
My Best Railway Photographs (LNER) 1/6d
More of my best Railway Photographs (no.12) 2/-

They’re the kind of thing that you can pick up at swap meets and suchlike for no more than £1.
Some nice shots therein
Worth a delve

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