Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

This forum is for the discussion of the infrastructure of the LNER and its constituent companies. Topics include signalling, signal boxes, track layout, bridges, stations, etc.

Moderators: 52D, Tom F, Rlangham, Atlantic 3279, Blink Bonny, Saint Johnstoun, richard

Post Reply
josh_will
NER Y7 0-4-0T
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:11 pm

Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by josh_will »

Dear all,

I'm hoping to find more info on the track plan at Abbotts Ripton in Cambridgeshire during the 1920s. I can see the arrangement of the loops and sidings at the northern end from photo evidence and contemporary Ordnance Survey maps, but I have not been able to work out the arrangement of the pointwork in the area to the south of the station.

If anybody has any information that might help me I would be very grateful.

Josh
swhite01
NER J27 0-6-0
Posts: 136
Joined: Tue Dec 05, 2006 1:11 pm
Location: Hertfordshire

Re: Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by swhite01 »

Try this link it should provide all the station are lines.... choose the year of the map most suitable

https://maps.nls.uk/geo/explore/#zoom=1 ... rs=168&b=1

Steve White

WWW.GNRSociety.com
josh_will
NER Y7 0-4-0T
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:11 pm

Re: Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by josh_will »

Thanks for that Steve. However I still can't make out whether the diamond crossings across the main running lines are just that, or if one or both of them are single/double slips.
Dave S
GNSR D40 4-4-0
Posts: 226
Joined: Wed Dec 14, 2016 12:46 pm

Re: Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by Dave S »

The GN were known for using single and double slips on the main line, but I suspect that two are actually turnouts.
Abbotts Ripton 2.jpg
WTTReprinter
NBR J36 0-6-0
Posts: 123
Joined: Mon Jan 14, 2013 10:21 pm
Location: Doncaster
Contact:

Re: Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by WTTReprinter »

There is a photo of the SB Diagram on Richard Pike's Flickr account;
https://www.flickr.com/photos/pwayowen/ ... JWi-pmPXBZ
Unsure of the date though!
Brian
Thanks.
WTT Reprinter
http://wttreprints.uk/
65447
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 1680
Joined: Fri Oct 19, 2007 2:44 pm
Location: Overlooking the GEML

Re: Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by 65447 »

From that signalling diagram they appear to be trailing single slips.
User avatar
StevieG
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: Near the GN main line in N.Herts.

Re: Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by StevieG »

65447 wrote: Sat Jan 21, 2023 9:48 am From that signalling diagram they appear to be trailing single slips.
They definitely are (were) 65447.

josh_will,
As per the diagram that WTTReprinter linked us to, and 65447 correctly states, the 'Through'/'ladder' crossover had trailing single slips in the Down and Up Fast lines, plus there was that one in the Down Goods line.
The GNR seemingly had a penchant (certainly along the southern end of the ECML anyway), for these long crossovers, and sidings' entry/exits, with single slips in the intervening tracks, from at least the 1900s/1910s, with few being removed before the 1950s, and many surviving to the late 1960s, and a few even later.
BZOH

/
\ \ \ //\ \
/// \ \ \ \
Mickey
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
Posts: 1015
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:27 am
Location: London

Re: Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by Mickey »

StevieG wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:56 am The GNR seemingly had a penchant (certainly along the southern end of the ECML anyway), for these long crossovers, and sidings' entry/exits, with single slips in the intervening tracks, from at least the 1900s/1910s, with few being removed before the 1950s, and many surviving to the late 1960s, and a few even later.
As you would also remember Stevie I also vaguely remember both at New Southgate and at New Barnet Noth Box both having 'long crossovers' starting from the Down slow line and going right across into the Up goods lines at both locations which I vaguely recall were removed at both locations around 1968-69 I believe?.

At one time a 'long crossover' existed to the south of Wood Green and I also believe another 'long crossover' was at Marshmoor back in GNR/LNER days because I vaguely remember seeing a old black & white postcard picture of Marshmoor with the long crossover featured in the photograph.

With regards to Abbots Ripton box in particular I have a couple of S&T drawings/diagrams of a signalling alteration that took place at the box around 1959-60 without 'digging the said drawings out' in regards to some work that was carried out at the 'Stukeley end' of the S&T diagram.
Original start date of 2010 on the LNER forum and previously posted 4500+ posts.
josh_will
NER Y7 0-4-0T
Posts: 7
Joined: Mon Aug 01, 2022 7:11 pm

Re: Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by josh_will »

Thank you all so much for your responses. I can now finish my article and get it sent off.

Regards,

Josh
User avatar
StevieG
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: Near the GN main line in N.Herts.

Re: Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by StevieG »

Mickey wrote: Tue Jan 24, 2023 11:42 am
StevieG wrote: Mon Jan 23, 2023 1:56 am The GNR seemingly had a penchant (certainly along the southern end of the ECML anyway), for these long crossovers, and sidings' entry/exits, with single slips in the intervening tracks, from at least the 1900s/1910s, with few being removed before the 1950s, and many surviving to the late 1960s, and a few even later.
As you would also remember Stevie I also vaguely remember both at New Southgate and at New Barnet Noth Box both having 'long crossovers' starting from the Down slow line and going right across into the Up goods lines at both locations which I vaguely recall were removed at both locations around 1968-69 I believe?.

At one time a 'long crossover' existed to the south of Wood Green and I also believe another 'long crossover' was at Marshmoor back in GNR/LNER days because I vaguely remember seeing a old black & white postcard picture of Marshmoor with the long crossover featured in the photograph.

With regards to Abbots Ripton box in particular I have a couple of S&T drawings/diagrams of a signalling alteration that took place at the box around 1959-60 without 'digging the said drawings out' in regards to some work that was carried out at the 'Stukeley end' of the S&T diagram.
Actually Mickey, down 'our area' at the south end of the main line, those that I know of having existed were : -
- Holloway North
- Wood Green (both) ends: The Up end of the north one only reached the Up Slow)
- New Southgate
- New Barnet (both ends: Only reached both Slow lines after NB Nos. 2 & 3 became one South box)
- Potters Bar (mech. and 1950s NX panel)
- Marshmoor
- Hatfield (both ends)
- Knebworth
- Langley
- Stevenage South
- Hitchin (both ends: The Up end of that at the South only reached the Up Fast, to feed into the UF-US and US-Stockyard crossovers).

Not so sure about North of those.
BZOH

/
\ \ \ //\ \
/// \ \ \ \
Mickey
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
Posts: 1015
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:27 am
Location: London

Re: Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by Mickey »

Sorry to hijack this topic thread about Abbots Ripton but with regards to the 'long crossovers' that the GNR seemed to have liked at the southern end south of Hitchin that one at New Southgate before it was removed around 1968 that passed underneath the tall bridge arches of the bridge just to the north of New Southgate station if riding on a fast line train either on the Up or Down fast lines that crossing use to make a 'hell of a racket' noise wise with the individual carriage wheels passing over the various rail joints in the switches and all exemplified noise wise by the echo of a train passing between the brick bridge columns.

I forgot about the Holloway North Down/Holloway North Up long crossover and the Knebworth long crossover was a little bit before my time.

There may have been a few other long crossovers between Peterborough & Stoke summit?. I have a S&T diagram of Corby Glen s/box south of Stoke which may have had a long crossover but I would have to 'dig out the diagram' to clarify if it did?.
Original start date of 2010 on the LNER forum and previously posted 4500+ posts.
Mickey
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
Posts: 1015
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:27 am
Location: London

Re: Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by Mickey »

Mickey wrote: Wed Jan 25, 2023 11:13 am There may have been a few other long crossovers between Peterborough & Stoke summit?. I have a S&T diagram of Corby Glen s/box south of Stoke which may have had a long crossover but I would have to 'dig out the diagram' to clarify if it did?.
As clarified in the above post yes there was also a 'long crossover' at Corby Glen s/box between Stoke & Little Bytham s/boxes as shown on a S&T diagram of P.Way renewal(s) and signalling alterations in my possession at the box dated 21/03/62

A long crossover commences in the far Up sidings road and travels via a second Up sidings road then the Up goods line and then the Up main line and then the Down main line and finally ends in the Down goods line just beyond the box. The long crossover commences at a double-slip connection in the Up siding roads that in turn runs through a second single slip trailing connection in the diamond crossing in another Up siding road (that ran parallel to the Up goods line) that in turn runs through a single slip trailing connection in the diamond crossing in the Up goods line that in turn runs through the single slip trailing connection in the diamond crossing in the Up main line that in turn runs through a single slip trailing connection in the diamond crossing in the Down main line that finally leads into single ended trailing connection in the Down goods line.

Several additional electric locks on a small number of individual levers and a plunger are shown under the alterations to take place in the box for these particular P.Way renewal(s).
Original start date of 2010 on the LNER forum and previously posted 4500+ posts.
User avatar
manna
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 3673
Joined: Sun May 24, 2009 12:56 am
Location: Booborowie. S. Aust

Re: Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents

The long crossing at Holloway Nth, was probably the last one in operation, it was there in the mid 70's, I know I used it, even have a pic I took of a Pullman ECS waiting to cross over, (early 70's)

manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.
Mickey
LNER V2 2-6-2 'Green Arrow'
Posts: 1015
Joined: Sun Jan 27, 2019 7:27 am
Location: London

Re: Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by Mickey »

From memory and you would probably remember his manna the 'long crossover' at Holloway North Down by the end of the 1960s and until August 1976 when Holloway North Down box was closed (along with the nearby Holloway South Down box) the trailing connecting points terminated leading into the Up fast line at the top of the Holloway bank although the long crossing itself did also cross the Down fast, Down slow no.1 and Down slow no.2 lines prior to starting in the 'long siding' road at Holloway North Down although having said that the trailing connection of this long crossover may have during an earlier time during GNR/LNER days continued on into the Up slow and maybe even the Up goods and Up coal lines controlled by Holloway North Up box?.
Original start date of 2010 on the LNER forum and previously posted 4500+ posts.
User avatar
StevieG
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
Posts: 2295
Joined: Sat Oct 10, 2009 9:08 pm
Location: Near the GN main line in N.Herts.

Re: Abbotts Ripton 1920s plan

Post by StevieG »

The Holloway crossover was usually referred to locally in the boxes, Control, etc. as "The High Level Crossover" Mickey - i/c/w the routing of ECS from Hollloway C.S. into KX - ('high level' as opposed to going down to between Fins. Park 2 and 3 boxes, then back under the main line & up 'The Creep Up' (Up Carriage) Line to Holl. N. Up box).
Until the c.1969 significant reduction of North Up's complex layout, reducing the 85 lever frame to having only about 25-30 levers left working, the HL xover ran from the "Carriage Siding" (/'Long Road') at North Down, across to the Up Goods with a trailing single slip in every road in between, and with the Up Coal being reachable via N.Up's immediately following UG-UCoal facing crossover. I believe that at least one diagram of the old North Down box shows the Down end of the long crossover going one step (line) further to reach Down Goods 1, which meant that the Down Carriage, and Goods 2, could therefore also be reached via other ND points.
And so, up to '69, all the equipment was still there, including the signallling that had been for working trains such as the scots Motorails from Holloway ''Cattle Dock" at South Up, Down the Up Coal road to N. Up and across to the Down Fast at N. Down; therefore naturally having to include Facing Point Locks on several of N. Up's points, including the HL xover's Up Goods end and the slip in/leading to the Down Fast.

But after the simplification 'the high level' was left consisting only of its parts that formed the DF/UF trailing crossover and the long lead from the Carriage Siding (the slips in Down Slows 1 & 2 were removed).
These elements were still, like the former rest of the HL, released from ND and worked from NU.
But when NU was abolished (c.1970?), and the remaining parts of NU's layout were transferred to be controlled from SU with the points motorised, the HL Crossover wasn't motorised, but remained mechanical with its control arrangements changed to being released from SU and worked from ND.
BZOH

/
\ \ \ //\ \
/// \ \ \ \
Post Reply