Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

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Silverfox86
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Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by Silverfox86 »

Hi all

I’m looking for the track layout of kings Cross station in the 1960s.

Does anybody know where I can find this please.

Thank you
DonAnderson
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Re: Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by DonAnderson »

Hello silverfox86

Try this:
https://maps.nls.uk/view/103030230

It should be good up to the end of steam, and it shows you all the pointwork of the "throat", but nothing under the overall roof. Probably the only source widely and commonly available. There is a larger scale, more detailed earlier edition, but not for the period you want.
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Re: Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by Mickey »

The Kings Cross track layout of the 1950s & 1960s didn't substantially change until 1977 (except maybe for the re-numbering of all the station platforms in May 1972) when the area from the platform ends to Gasworks tunnel was 'rationalised' in what British Rail at the time called "The clearing the throat" which eliminated the use of the eastern tunnel out of the three tunnels.

The LNER 1933 Kings Cross signal box that stood at the platform ends between platforms no.5 & no.6 was closed and replaced by a new Kings Cross power box built over on the York Road station area later in 1971 which has subsequently closed in 2021 although the redundant 1933 structure remained left standing until 1976 when it was finally demolished from memory?.
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manna
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Re: Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents

Anyone got an up to date track layout, of the replaced track in the Eastern tunnel bore.

manna
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iands
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Re: Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by iands »

I have a pdf copy of the Kings Cross - Hitchin routebook from 1968. I attach (hopefully) a page showing KX station/throat area. Hope this helps.
KX-Hitchin Route Book 1968-p23.pdf
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Re: Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by StevieG »

manna wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 10:58 pm G'Day Gents

Anyone got an up to date track layout, of the replaced track in the Eastern tunnel bore.

manna
AFAIR reading manna (unlike the other two bores of Gasworks Tunnel since the 2021 remodelling), I believe the tracks in the Eastern bore are just two parallel plain lines.
Are you actually seeking to know about the layout on the approaches to them ?
BZOH

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manna
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Re: Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by manna »

StevieG wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 10:40 am
manna wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 10:58 pm G'Day Gents

Anyone got an up to date track layout, of the replaced track in the Eastern tunnel bore.

manna
AFAIR reading manna (unlike the other two bores of Gasworks Tunnel since the 2021 remodelling), I believe the tracks in the Eastern bore are just two parallel plain lines.
Are you actually seeking to know about the layout on the approaches to them ?
G'Day StevieG. I've heard about what they were 'Going' to do, but I've not heard about what they actually did nor seen any pics of what they did. Are the two parallel line used for stabling trains, or for cleaning trains ???

Thanks manna.
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.
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Re: Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by swhite01 »

Hello Manna
If you download the June 2024 Network Rail Sectional Appendix the Kings Cross track layout is shown on page 193
The link to the file: https://sacuksprodnrdigital0001.blob.co ... 202024.pdf

I hope this helps,
Steve

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manna
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Re: Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by manna »

G'Day Gents

Thank you Steve for that information, took me a while to work out how to work it, but after I did, wow, lots of questions answered, looking through the track plans, between KX & Peterborough, reckon I'd pick that up very quickly, doesn't seemed to have changed that much. Thanks' again.

manna
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Re: Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by StevieG »

manna wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 9:58 pm
StevieG wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 10:40 am
manna wrote: Wed May 29, 2024 10:58 pm G'Day Gents

Anyone got an up to date track layout, of the replaced track in the Eastern tunnel bore.

manna
AFAIR reading manna (unlike the other two bores of Gasworks Tunnel since the 2021 remodelling), I believe the tracks in the Eastern bore are just two parallel plain lines.
Are you actually seeking to know about the layout on the approaches to them ?
G'Day StevieG. I've heard about what they were 'Going' to do, but I've not heard about what they actually did nor seen any pics of what they did. Are the two parallel line used for stabling trains, or for cleaning trains ???

Thanks manna.
manna,
Thanks to the excellently useful link that swhite01 posted, you may now have seen that the two eastern bore's tracks are running lines as much as are the other four tracks, and I see that I wasn't quite right about the eastern bore's tracks being plain line throughout, as you may have noted that there's a crossover between them in the tunnel's north end.
BZOH

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manna
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Re: Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by manna »

StevieG wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 11:06 pm
manna wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 9:58 pm
StevieG wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 10:40 am
AFAIR reading manna (unlike the other two bores of Gasworks Tunnel since the 2021 remodelling), I believe the tracks in the Eastern bore are just two parallel plain lines.
Are you actually seeking to know about the layout on the approaches to them ?
G'Day StevieG. I've heard about what they were 'Going' to do, but I've not heard about what they actually did nor seen any pics of what they did. Are the two parallel line used for stabling trains, or for cleaning trains ???

Thanks manna.
manna,
Thanks to the excellently useful link that swhite01 posted, you may now have seen that the two eastern bore's tracks are running lines as much as are the other four tracks, and I see that I wasn't quite right about the eastern bore's tracks being plain line throughout, as you may have noted that there's a crossover between them in the tunnel's north end.
G'Day Stevie.

Yes it's much better than the two 'Dead' end tracks I envisaged, the fact that trains can now be routed through the old 'Main/Slow' lines, opens up the station much better than the 1970's rebuild, I always thought it was a bad idea to to close that tunnel to traffic.

manna
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Re: Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by StevieG »

iands wrote: Fri May 31, 2024 8:52 pm I have a pdf copy of the Kings Cross - Hitchin routebook from 1968. I attach (hopefully) a page showing KX station/throat area. Hope this helps.KX-Hitchin Route Book 1968-p23.pdf
Have to say manna that this Route Book extract, while giving a good general impression of the layout, is inaccurate in terms of omitting quite a number of slips at diamond crossings.
These books were drawn up primarily to aid Drivers' route learning, and so concentrated on the signals, with accuracy of other infrastructure to the degree needed for signalmen/other Operating staff/Permanent Way/signal engineering staff was not considered a top importance.
BZOH

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Re: Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by StevieG »

manna wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 11:12 pm
StevieG wrote: Tue Jun 04, 2024 11:06 pm
manna wrote: Sun Jun 02, 2024 9:58 pm

G'Day StevieG. I've heard about what they were 'Going' to do, but I've not heard about what they actually did nor seen any pics of what they did. Are the two parallel line used for stabling trains, or for cleaning trains ???

Thanks manna.
manna,
Thanks to the excellently useful link that swhite01 posted, you may now have seen that the two eastern bore's tracks are running lines as much as are the other four tracks, and I see that I wasn't quite right about the eastern bore's tracks being plain line throughout, as you may have noted that there's a crossover between them in the tunnel's north end.
G'Day Stevie.

Yes it's much better than the two 'Dead' end tracks I envisaged, the fact that trains can now be routed through the old 'Main/Slow' lines, opens up the station much better than the 1970's rebuild, I always thought it was a bad idea to to close that tunnel to traffic.

manna

I believe that the thinking for the '1977' layout manna, was that its having four bi-directional lines through Gasworks, along with the by then and/or soon to come increasingly higher proportion of 'fixed' formation/multiple unit trains (i.e. far fewer loco-hauled, = fewer light engine moves), would allow the third bore to be unnecessary.
Conversely you may see that, with so many of the outer suburban trains now running via St.Pancras, and the greater number of long distance trains(/others) using the main station's platforms, the current layout has better flexibility for the latter rather than for the remaining 'Great Northern' suburbans normally still using KX Suburban platforms 9 & 10.
My 'pet' criticism of the current layout is that, between Belle Isle and the crossovers on Holloway 'Bank', any infrastructure problem, or train breakdown requiring staff on-track, occurring on either or both Fast lines, renders movements to/from platforms 1-6 limited or not possible at all, whereas the 1977 layout still included provision of access between Platforms 1-10 ( + the later reinstated 11) and both the Fast and Slow lines at Belle Isle.
Last edited by StevieG on Tue Jun 11, 2024 5:09 pm, edited 1 time in total.
BZOH

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Re: Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by strang steel »

Silverfox86 wrote: Fri Apr 26, 2024 11:34 pm Hi all

I’m looking for the track layout of kings Cross station in the 1960s.

Does anybody know where I can find this please.

Thank you
This may be my memory playing tricks on me, but I'm sure that as a teenager I borrowed a book from my local library which included track layouts on thin folded paper glued into the spine of the book at the relevant places. My head said that it was a hard-back version of 'London's Termini' but that could be wrong.

I know I spent hours with the Kings Cross page unfolded and marvelling at the complexity of the pointwork, and fantasising on building an 00 gauge model of it one day.
John. My spotting log website is now at https://spottinglogs.co.uk/spotting-rec ... s-70s-80s/
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Re: Kings Cross track layout 1960’s

Post by Mickey »

strang steel wrote: Tue Jun 11, 2024 9:48 am This may be my memory playing tricks on me, but I'm sure that as a teenager I borrowed a book from my local library which included track layouts on thin folded paper glued into the spine of the book at the relevant places. My head said that it was a hard-back version of 'London's Termini' but that could be wrong.

I know I spent hours with the Kings Cross page unfolded and marvelling at the complexity of the pointwork, and fantasising on building an 00 gauge model of it one day.
That 'London Termini book' that you mention John was a good book to have, I bought a soft back copy back in 1970 which had a colour picture/painting on the front cover showing Kings Cross looking towards platform nos 8 & 10 with an LNER era A3 possibly at the head of The Flying Scotsman the 10:00 O'clock departure in no.10 platform. All in all an interesting book indeed if you was interested in all the London terminal stations like I was and still am from an historical perspective. I think every individual chapter that dealt with a particular London terminal had a track diagram of the terminal's track layout.
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