Flying Scotsman

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Kestrel
NER C7 4-4-2
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Flying Scotsman

Post by Kestrel » Tue May 23, 2017 6:43 pm


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greenglade
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
Posts: 263
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Re: Flying Scotsman

Post by greenglade » Tue May 23, 2017 9:20 pm

Many thank's for sharing this...although I'm building 4472 as an A1 each and every photo, (especially good closeups) obtained contains a goldmine of useful information.....it's all very useful for my own project.....cheers

Pete

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Robpulham
LNER A3 4-6-2
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Re: Flying Scotsman

Post by Robpulham » Sat May 27, 2017 8:55 pm

Pedantic I know, but I do wish they wouldn't refer to it as a train. You would have hoped that someone who makes a living as a reporter would have a modicum of education...

West_Stanley
LNER J94 0-6-0ST Austerity
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Re: Flying Scotsman

Post by West_Stanley » Sat Jun 10, 2017 7:55 am

I read an interesting article some years back about how much of this locomotive goes back to 1923. The frames, the cab (part of which was cut down to get under bridges) and not much else. Much of the other stuff would have been renewed due to upgrading, but some things like the wheels would never wear out

drmditch
GNR C1 4-4-2
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Re: Flying Scotsman

Post by drmditch » Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:44 am

I think you may be mistaken in thinking that the existing frames to back to 1923. Since A1/A3 frames cracked quite regularly it became Doncaster practice to weld on new front frames, and to keep spare sets of frames ready.

If you search this forum, and others, you will find quite a lot of discussion on this and related issues.

As to what actually created and maintained the 'accounting identity' of a particular locomotive then discussions will probably never cease! Most were not maintained as 'one-offs', as is now the necessity in preservation, but as members of a class of similar machines. Frames were regularly exchanged and/or replaced. On entering works for a general overhaul most locomotives were stripped down and then re-assembled with new and/or refurbished parts.

A close examination of many 'preserved' locomotives (such as 'Green Arrow' )will reveal motion parts stamped with several locomotive numbers.

(Many people on this forum have a much better knowledge of works practices than I do!)

burnie
LNER N2 0-6-2T
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Re: Flying Scotsman

Post by burnie » Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:00 am

Interesting comment, as a retired engineer who although I never worked on steam locomotives, a few of my work colleagues did. One who did his apprenticeship at Polmadie in Glasgow told me that working on older locos that were made on Victorian machine tools were very much "one offs". The machines accuracy just wasn't there and changing certain parts was often described as challenging. Once machine tools became more accurate then parts bins were certainly more to the fore, indeed the Nationalised Standard classes were designed with this in mind.

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greenglade
NBR D34 4-4-0 'Glen'
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Re: Flying Scotsman

Post by greenglade » Sun Jun 11, 2017 7:27 pm

drmditch wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 10:44 am
I think you may be mistaken in thinking that the existing frames to back to 1923. Since A1/A3 frames cracked quite regularly it became Doncaster practice to weld on new front frames, and to keep spare sets of frames ready.

If you search this forum, and others, you will find quite a lot of discussion on this and related issues.

As to what actually created and maintained the 'accounting identity' of a particular locomotive then discussions will probably never cease! Most were not maintained as 'one-offs', as is now the necessity in preservation, but as members of a class of similar machines. Frames were regularly exchanged and/or replaced. On entering works for a general overhaul most locomotives were stripped down and then re-assembled with new and/or refurbished parts.

A close examination of many 'preserved' locomotives (such as 'Green Arrow' )will reveal motion parts stamped with several locomotive numbers.

(Many people on this forum have a much better knowledge of works practices than I do!)
I agree with all said....just to add, today FS has a number of different ID stamps on part of her motion, the recent Haynes manual has pictures to support this, ie: the trailing wheels are stamped 1923, driving wheels 1949. The right-hand slide bar has various iD stamps, 4472 and 103, it's also suggested that one of the slide bars is stamped 1472. I'm sure that there are many other original parts still on the locomotive, not frames, as already stated, these would have been changed a number of times even in LNER days.

Pete

Mickey
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Flying Scotsman

Post by Mickey » Wed Jun 14, 2017 11:23 pm

Someone posted on the forum about 5 or 6 years ago that FS boiler originally belonged to A3 Salmon Trout.

Mickey

john coffin
LNER Thompson B1 4-6-0 'Antelope'
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Re: Flying Scotsman

Post by john coffin » Wed Jun 21, 2017 12:20 am

There is available mainly at this time in discount book stores, a Haynes manual for Flying Scotsman which has some interesting photos
and data within. some of which I had never seen before.

As for different parts, should you visit No 1 anywhere, you might well notice that its driving axle is not numbered No 1.

Paul

Hatfield Shed
NER C7 4-4-2
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Re: Flying Scotsman

Post by Hatfield Shed » Tue Jun 27, 2017 11:41 am

burnie wrote:
Sun Jun 11, 2017 11:00 am
Interesting comment, as a retired engineer who although I never worked on steam locomotives, a few of my work colleagues did. One who did his apprenticeship at Polmadie in Glasgow told me that working on older locos that were made on Victorian machine tools were very much "one offs". The machines accuracy just wasn't there and changing certain parts was often described as challenging. Once machine tools became more accurate then parts bins were certainly more to the fore, indeed the Nationalised Standard classes were designed with this in mind.
I had the great benefit of the father of a schoolfriend, who had served a premium apprenticeship at Inchicore, mostly during OVSB's term of office - there's the LNER connection at two removes! - and among much else he told me that the standard error on non-critical dimensions like frame length could be of the order of 0.2%. His interest had been taken by metrology in which he made his later career, and the non-temperature controlled working environment in which steam traction was constructed and maintained resulted in 'most interesting' deviations. The man who had the habit of putting his calipers on top of the lathe motor housing for example...

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manna
LNER A4 4-6-2 'Streak'
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Re: Flying Scotsman

Post by manna » Wed Jun 28, 2017 6:21 am

G'day Gents

I've seen calipers left on top of a lathe housing, they slipped off, whilst running, it went screaming across the factory, ending up spearing into a bag of plastic pellets, they didn't do that again. :shock:

And yes the heat coming off of the top of the motor housing could change the measurement of your calipers.

manna
EDGWARE GN, Steam in the Suburbs.

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