Hitchin flyover?

[giner]

Didn't want to hijack Bryan's 'N1 in Cambridge' thread in the 'LNER Locomotives' section, so what's all this about a new flyover for the Cambridge branch at Hitchin? A story on Page 9 of the Railway Herald (see Bryan's N1 in Cambridge' topic in LNER Locomotives) outlines the plan and says that there were problems with having the down Cambridge trains crossing the main lines. What? After all these years? Can anyone on the ground in that neck 'o the woods shed some light on this, please?

[R. pike]

Someone has gone round here with some lengths of 2 by 2 and put up A4 sized notices relating to the transport and works order.... Thing's are on the move at last. I noted one near structure SBR3 the other day.

http://www.networkrail.co.uk/aspx/5538.aspx

[giner]

Thanks! Cute video and all that, but where's the UP line?

And do we assume that the twin track merging in at the end of the video is the Liverpool St. line merging in before Cambridge. Are there any drawings available? I'd like to see more on this. I think I'll have a search on the Hitchin Comet newspaper website. And I'd still like to know what the perceived problems are after all the time this junction has been in place.

Hey hey, I knew a certain eager-to-please young lady once on Walsworth Common. All together now, Those were the days my friend, we thought they'd never end. LOL!

[jwealleans]

Surely the up line is the left hand one of the pair at the end of the video. As there are houses both sides of the line where it meets the ECML, this flyover runs north of the current flat junction then has to loop back to join the double line to Cambridge. None of this is anywhere near the Liverpool Street line.

[R. pike]

The up branch will stay in place. I'm not sure what will happen to the down branch. It may stay in place to give Cambridge bound access from the down yard. It will mean we shall see some track on the Midland line again....

[giner]

Surely the up line is the left hand one of the pair at the end of the video. As there are houses both sides of the line where it meets the ECML, this flyover runs north of the current flat junction then has to loop back to join the double line to Cambridge. None of this is anywhere near the Liverpool Street line.

I'm quite familiar with the area, but I'm a bit thrown by the video in that it seems to start from the down side of Hitchin station and continues on up the bank towards Letchworth without ever turning back towards Hitchin at all. So I see it as a sort of truncated Hitchin to Cambridge trip with the junction at the end of the video being where the Liverpool St. lines join.

I agree with R. Pike in that the up line need not be altered, although the access to the branch from the down yard could be accomplished by having the down branch moved further north, then up and over the ECML, and, in so doing, giving a wide separation of the up and down lines of the branch at this point and reverting to their current alignment east of Woolgrove Road bridge. I guess there's going to be be a lot of compulsory purchase orders and disgruntled people, though.

I'm still not clear about why any of this needs to be done anyway after all this time. I've never heard of these alleged "problems" that the powers that be claim.

[chaz harrison]

I can't comment on current traffic problems, but isn't it the case that in steam days drivers used to refer to it as Sabotage Junction?

Would they not be better off saving any funds to put towards the overdue quadrupling through the Welwyn/Digswell bottleneck, or has this been forgotten?

Chaz

[R. pike]

Down trains will leave Hitchin on the old Midland formation and then will climb up over ECM1, cross over the old Cadwell sewage works then just miss the corner of the Wilbury Road industrial estate joining SBR just short of structure 3, Wilbury Hills bridge. The bone hunters have been in and done their bit during the summer. I guess they didn't find too much as all the holes are filled and recently ploughed.

If you spend some time at Hitchin just watching trains there are a significant number of down trains that have to wait a path to gain the branch. Likewise if something is signalled to the branch and isn't on the move promptly the chances are you will see a mainline train that has been checked.

[CVR1865]

I agree that there is real need for this, many times I have been stuck waiting for us to move off onto the branch and equally if the Cambridge train is stopped then it will delay any up trains coming straight down the ECML. And surely this is easier to achieve than the 4 track at welwyn viaduct?

[giner]

Well, I guess memory plays funny tricks. It always seemed to run smoothly enough at one time. On countless trips from Stevenage to Cambridge in years gone by, I don't remember any significant delays as seem to occur now. Something has changed. Maybe scheduling skills have gone down the drain. And 'Sabotage Junction', that's a new one on me. I'll continue to watch this one with interest, though

Agreed, they really should do something about the Digswell bottleneck. It ain't gonna get any cheaper.

[R. pike]

I think the Welwyn problem is a tough egg to crack. I can see new tunnels being built without too much fuss. Building a new viaduct to match the original must be near impossible in this day and age. If they went for new tunnels at least the slow roads could be continued up to the viaduct meaning stopping trains are out of the way. Another option would be to build a longer tunnel each end of a much lower viaduct with gradients as most modern trains hardly notice them. I have had a brief trawl through the net looking for the gradient profile of the Channel Tunnel route. It looks like a roller coaster in places.

[52D]

Let me put my Pennorth in, In these days of high speed routes and so forth there must be a case for quadrupling the ECML from London to Newcastle at least and improving/reinstating certain lifted loops further north with a view to eventually having a four track London to Edinburgh with the two inner tracks being reserved for high speed trains of both passenger and Freightliner types.
If we were going to be ultra radical we could build the NERs lost Newcastle avoiding line and join it with a reopened Leamside line to give a fast non stop service from Capital to Capital.
While this is going on thoughts should also be given to the joining routes as per original discussion topic.

[Pyewipe Junction]

Whatever happened to the Newark flyover?

[Bryan]

Not forgetting the one for Skelton Junction north of York.
Taking the Up Slow over the Fast lines.

[hq1hitchin]

Or the Woking flyover? It was started sometime in the 1930s, hence the dogsleg curve on the Down Slow immediately west of the junction with the Pompey lines, but never finished.