A1 Trust announces P2 feasibility study

[Atlantic 3279]

Although Crew probably had the best boilers

Now there's a completely unbiased, non-partisan view from a man with no alliegance whatsoever to the LMS........ Says who

[S.A.C. Martin]

....And of course other railways had their trials ,tribulations and imperfections as regards boiler design and layout.

Although Crew probably had the best boilers:

I'm not certain that's true! I will admit freely I was not around to witness it first hand, but absolutely nothing I've read could provide evidence towards that. If anything the best boilers by BR days were those on the Bulleid Pacifics...?

[52D]

....And of course other railways had their trials ,tribulations and imperfections as regards boiler design and layout.

Although Crew probably had the best boilers:

I'm not certain that's true! I will admit freely I was not around to witness it first hand, but absolutely nothing I've read could provide evidence towards that. If anything the best boilers by BR days were those on the Bulleid Pacifics...?

Who was HNGs pupil anyway so lets all chill and relax the P2 project has my attention now.

[Solario]

There is now an item on the BBC website -

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/8655914.stm

[coachmann]

In your drive to show your LNER alleagance, you completely missed my point. Never mind.

[S.A.C. Martin]

In your drive to show your LNER alleagance, you completely missed my point. Never mind.

My apologies coach - but...?

Would you mind clarifying your point for the uninitiated?

I'm not trying to be obtuse, I honestly don't see your point. Sorry.

[coachmann]

....And of course other railways had their trials ,tribulations and imperfections as regards boiler design and layout.

My original response was to this, the fact that other railways had trials and trbulation with boilers etc and yet it hardly mattered in the end. The Black Five was a rolling test-bed for boiler 'improvements & experiments' yet regardless of type (domeless verticle thoatplate, sloping throatplate, domed, dome at forward position, long chimneys/short chimneys), the 1934 boiler stood beside the postwar Ivatt in 1968 at the end of steam.

Crewe boilers probably being the best, the key word being probably.

[S.A.C. Martin]

....And of course other railways had their trials ,tribulations and imperfections as regards boiler design and layout.

My original response was to this, the fact that other railways had trials and trbulation with boilers etc and yet it hardly mattered in the end. The Black Five was a rolling test-bed for boiler 'improvements & experiments' yet regardless of type (domeless verticle thoatplate, sloping throatplate, domed, dome at forward position, long chimneys/short chimneys), the 1934 boiler stood beside the postwar Ivatt in 1968 at the end of steam.

Crewe boilers probably being the best, the key word being probably.

Ah, thank you. Fair point.

[coachmann]

Now there's a completely unbiased, non-partisan view from a man with no alliegance whatsoever to the LMS....

And me born in Hyde, Cheshire, on the LNER.

[S.A.C. Martin]

....And of course other railways had their trials ,tribulations and imperfections as regards boiler design and layout.

My original response was to this, the fact that other railways had trials and trbulation with boilers etc and yet it hardly mattered in the end. The Black Five was a rolling test-bed for boiler 'improvements & experiments' yet regardless of type (domeless verticle thoatplate, sloping throatplate, domed, dome at forward position, long chimneys/short chimneys), the 1934 boiler stood beside the postwar Ivatt in 1968 at the end of steam.

Crewe boilers probably being the best, the key word being probably.

Just to add to this as it's a thought I had after the event, so to speak...

Not only that, but the "ultimate" black fives - Ivatt boiler, Caprotti valve gear, double chimney - were they not one of the first black fives to go? Where as you stated, the original 1934 boiler/locomotive combinations were still working up to the end of steam?

[coachmann]

The last two 'ultimate' Black Fives of 1951 went in Autumn 1965 & January 66. M4763 carried apple green....I mention this to reduce the impact of hijacking the thread.

Getting back to the P2, the heading picture is how many people remember 2001, but it only ran like this for barely 4 years and ran with an A4 style wedge front for 6 years.

[Atlantic 3279]

Now there's a completely unbiased, non-partisan view from a man with no alliegance whatsoever to the LMS....

And me born in Hyde, Cheshire, on the LNER.

Excuse the sarcastic humour, but I did have a friend who never missed a chance to claim that everything the LMS had, from Duchess Pacifics to coat buttons, was better than anything on any other railway.......
I did, incidentally, grasp the point you made about "old" boiler designs continuing to be repaired and re-fitted to locos long after the supposedly better new ones had appeared. What is "better" depends upon what you want it to do, and how much it is going to cost to change from what you already have!

[manna]

G'Day Gents
Still say the P2's were better suited, to the KX to Newcastle mainline, long staights and banks (Stoke).
Anyway What are we going to call it, a Scottish name! in keeping with the rest of the class????-------Gorden Brown !!!
manna

[richard]

By coincidence in the last few minutes I just started a new thread with some more serious names (Alex Salmond being another one to file alongside Gordon Brown in the 'rejected' box!)

The thread is here:

so-what-shall-the-new-p2-be-called-t3630.html

I think this thread has run its course for "news". Talk of Black 5 boilers and principles boiler evolution isn't really news and should probably be continued in another folder.


Richard

[redtoon1892]

Alex Salmond - The man who would be king, perish the thought of any politicians name being used.
As the original names are High Scottish Office themed apart from Mons Meg maybe The Lord Advocate, The Lord Chamberlain, The Knight Marischal, Lord Lyon King of Arms or Dean of the Thistle.