61662 Manchester United "To be restored"

[Spamcan81]

The fact that 'Manchester United' is to be rebuilt instead of a less 'conflictively' named B17 has put me off the project completely

Agreed. Whilst I'd be delighted if a B17 named Tottenham Hotspur rose from the ashes, naming a B17 after any major football club would be divisive IMO.

[giner]

Oh, I can't see any given name being divisive. As an Arsenal man myself, I have absolutely no problem with the current choice of Manchester United, it was, after all, a bona fide name in the class. And, as I alluded to in a previous post, stick with United and get on to the club themselves to see if any financial help might be forthcoming. You don't ask, you don't get.

I would have thought that, as LNER people, we'd be just so darned happy to see a new B17 on the rails, regardless of personal preferences in football clubs. We are grown adults around here, aren't we?

[adge]

'stick with United and get on to the club themselves to see if any financial help might be forthcoming. You don't ask, you don't get. '

I would have thought that if you stick the name 'Manchester United' or any football club on the loco, a massive bill would be forthcoming from the club for infringement of copyright, illegal use of the name etc
Steer clear of that for sure.

[S.A.C. Martin]

'stick with United and get on to the club themselves to see if any financial help might be forthcoming. You don't ask, you don't get. '

I would have thought that if you stick the name 'Manchester United' or any football club on the loco, a massive bill would be forthcoming from the club for infringement of copyright, illegal use of the name etc
Steer clear of that for sure.

Given its on the official Manchester United club website, I don't think that's a problem.

[adge]

'stick with United and get on to the club themselves to see if any financial help might be forthcoming. You don't ask, you don't get. '

I would have thought that if you stick the name 'Manchester United' or any football club on the loco, a massive bill would be forthcoming from the club for infringement of copyright, illegal use of the name etc
Steer clear of that for sure.

Given its on the official Manchester United club website, I don't think that's a problem.

Ever had any dealings with Premier League clubs? Beware, that's my advice.

[S.A.C. Martin]

Ever had any dealings with Premier League clubs? Beware, that's my advice.

I have had some dealings previously, though assuredly we're not Premier League anymore

I do take your point RE copyright, but the project is being advertised on the official Manchester United website (and in their latest match day programme, no less), and this must show some semblance of support for the project from the club concerned?

I do remember a rather hilarious situation regarding one particular club in the Premier League who tried to sue over the name of a Chocolate Bar, and then "The Posh" versus "Posh" (Spice) in the 90s over their trading name...!

So I don't disagree with you, for clarity, in terms of dealings with Premier League clubs, but this seems to be rather more cooperative than many football clubs probably would be.

[giner]

Seems that United are onside (sorry) with this project, then. No doubt that they'd want the exclusive name rights, so the loco's appearing in any other guise is probably out of the question. Not to worry, if it gets a new B17 on the rails who really cares what name it carries.

[West_Stanley]

This wouldn't be my choice of a "Footballer" name, but interestly, Manchester United were bottom of the First Division when 61662 went into service! Looking at the situation more positively, if there was a locomotive called "Manchester United", supporters of the neighbouring club would demand a one called "Manchester City"! Perhaps their moneybags Oil Sheik would fund it personally! Man U's other bitter rivals, "Liverpool" - not to be outdone - may demand one also, which would lead to an "Everton" loco, then an "Arsenal" and "Tottenham Hotspur" machine. Vladimir Romanov's ego and wallet would perhaps demand a B17 with a "Chelsea" name plaque (complete with new number), and Hey Presto! A whole new fleet of B17's!

We've not heard much of this project recently, it seems to have gone off the boil. The matter is being very poorly promoted. This is an excellent untapped source of income for heritage railways; money from Football Supporters and Chairmen who are passionate about their Football Clubs

PS How about a B17 called Flying Fortress!

[Blink Bonny]

Ay up, West Stanley!

How would you get all those guns inside the British loading gauge?

And as for fan "loyalty." When I lived in Bradford (another B17!), the footy team were promoted into the Premier League. Suddenly, I seemed to have the only car without a Bradford City sticker in the back window. The day after they were demoted, the vast majority disappeared to be replaced with the usual suspects. Same with Leeds Utd. And a Huddersfield Town sticker? A rarity! The teams in the Premier do well for fans, the rest.....

I doubt that most football "fans" would contribute. After all, having worked with a number of Season Ticket holders, I found them to be both bores and boors. Any interest not directly connected with drinking or watching footy was crackers. It would just be "another bloody train!" to most.

[60800]

"another bloody train!"

That's the reply I get whenever I open my mouth

[60129 GUY MANNERING]

61657 Doncaster Rovers and then Model Railway Enthusiast (Little Peover layout) and Club Chairman, John Ryan might be tempted to part with a few quid.

[West_Stanley]

[/quote]

I would have thought that if you stick the name 'Manchester United' or any football club on the loco, a massive bill would be forthcoming from the club for infringement of copyright, illegal use of the name etc
Steer clear of that for sure.[/quote]

I wonder if that's why 61658 "Newcastle United" became "The Essex Regiment" after only about 2 weeks? It would be just like them (NUFC) to put their foot in it

Interestingly, all those clubs were in either the First or Second Division at the time of building. The one exception being Darlington FC who were in Division 3 (North). Hull City were relegated to that same division by the time its locomotive went into service

[silverfox]

To be honest, i cant see this seeing the light of day at all, as much as i adore the class.
I agree that to name it a specific football club is very contentious, it could well be argued that ManU are the most popular team in the UK. Likewise, for every Manc they find, i could put 19 other guys against them. This would equally apply to any other other club that has had an engine carry its name. The B17 Loco trust has gone the other way, in that it is aiming predominantly at the East Anglian area for its funding. The other problem that both societies appear to suffer from is lack of letting the general railway family of their existence. In the monthlies that i read at the local branch of W H Smith, the main new builds seem to be the Patriot and the Marsh Atlantic, with others getting a regular mention. Even The Brighton Belle Group got NATIONAL tv coverage the other week. The B17 Trust has two tenders, one GE and 1 GS situated on the MNR, but news on their website appears static.
It is a shame that possible available funding from the General public, is being torn between these two schemes, The B17 trust puts the build cost at 2.7 millions, and those of us still shuffling about on this mortal coil who can remember them running in service,( I saw that last B17 and D16 at Stratford when bunking it back in 1960.) will take a look at the timescale of Tornado, exceed estimations by 50%,and look seriously at both of these causes and wonder if it is worth putting anything in with the very faint chance of actually seeing one running. In both cases it appears that they are sitting back waiting for donators to come running to them, and i cannot see the football club putting anything substantial into this , otherwise there would not be this scrmble to raise the funds, put into perspective this is the weekly gross wages for the first team squad

Wayne Rooney - £180,000
Robin van Persie - £180,000
Rio Ferdinand - £110,000
Nemanja Vidic - £90,000
Ashley Young - £90,000
Patrice Evra - £75,000
Ryan Giggs - £70,000
Javier Hernandez - £60,000
Shinji Kagawa - £60,000
Antonio Valencia - £60,000
Michael Carrick - £55,000
David De Gea - £50,000
Danny Welbeck - £50,000
Darren Fletcher - £50,000
Jonny Evans - £45,000
Andres Lindegaard - £45,000
Luis Nani - £45,000
Chris Smalling - £40,000
Phil Jones - £40,000
Rafael da Silva - £40,000
Paul Scholes - £30,000
Alexander Buttner - £25,000
Angelo Henriquez - £20,000
Tom Cleverley - £20,000
Federico Macheda - £6,000
Nick Powell - £5,000

Total 1,547,000 per WEEK!!
Less than half a per cent of that would get the tender! So the players are not interested, are not told about.

If either of them stsrted a concerted effort at putting their schems forward they might get, in the Trust case, the 2000 subscribers they need, butthey would need to be committed people. In the several societies i belong to (costing only up to £30.00 pa the drop of rate of those that have joined in the last year is the greatest.To get a £240.00pa commitment over 10 yrs is a big ask. Perhaps if both had got together, but that will never happen now, it could have gone forward. The only new build that the the promoters may see running is the D16, they are all in thier twnties so time is on their side.
I wish both societies well, but it needs an aggressive? and well pushed publicity campaign to encourage the oldies to part with their cash. They are not going to get them by sitting back doing what appears to be nothing, Damn shame.

[2002EarlMarischal]

I have just made a modest donation towards saving the Group Standard tender covered elsewhere.

As a consequence I am now a member of the NBL Preservation Group.

I remember as an early member (PO23) of the A1 Trust, that there were many doubts about the ability to build an A1. It took almost twice as long as expected but we all know the story.

If anyone out there is interested, I have permission to make the newsletters available regarding 61662 and if you PM me with your e-mail details, I will send them to you.

[silverfox]

Wow, just read a bit in Steam Railway
The Clan group are aiming for completion by 2025... they started in 1993

Oh and someone(NBL member) has bought the old smokebox and something else for the (Red Scourge!!) From the B1 group