Atlantic's works: ECJS 12 wheel clerestory dining cars

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kimballthurlow
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Re: Atlantic's works: ECJS 12 wheel clerestory dining cars

Post by kimballthurlow » Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:48 pm

Atlantic 3279 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:38 pm
.....
Here's a reminder of the mis-match of cornice heights (and some other features) between a Mousa D303 on the left, and the un-touched side of the "rough" D & S D301 on the left.
...
Hello Graeme,

Sorry to interrupt this interesting thread which I follow as much from admiration as from engrossment.
I was wondering if you could edit the above post.
Should one of the "left" be a "right"?
Otherwise I can no longer follow the sense of the article.

Thank you in advance.
Kimball

Woodcock29
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Re: Atlantic's works: ECJS 12 wheel clerestory dining cars

Post by Woodcock29 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 3:56 am

Woodcock29 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 1:57 pm
Graeme the cornice on that D.301 looks much like what mine do. I actually use the method Dan suggested and make a false ceiling as part of the roof which can then be removed. Strips of plastic card are then used along the edge of the roof and down below the base of the ceiling to hide any gaps.
Andrew
What I neglected to say in the above was that when I add the ceiling I do set it fractionally above the base of the roof so the sides of the roof do overhang the top of the sides marginally. This means the extra strip I add does provide more of an overhang. Whether this is significantly too much I'm not sure but photos do indicate there is some overhang.
Andrew

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Re: Atlantic's works: ECJS 12 wheel clerestory dining cars

Post by Woodcock29 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:56 am

Further to my comments above here is a photo I took of the 6 wheel Howlden BT(4) at the Vintage Carriage Trust at Ingrow on the KWVR. You can see the degree of overhang of the cornice.
Andrew
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UK0_5303 cropped s .jpg

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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Atlantic's works: ECJS 12 wheel clerestory dining cars

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:18 pm

kimballthurlow wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 9:48 pm
Atlantic 3279 wrote:
Fri Sep 25, 2020 9:38 pm
.....
Here's a reminder of the mis-match of cornice heights (and some other features) between a Mousa D303 on the left, and the un-touched side of the "rough" D & S D301 on the left.
...
Hello Graeme,

Sorry to interrupt this interesting thread which I follow as much from admiration as from engrossment.
I was wondering if you could edit the above post.
Should one of the "left" be a "right"?
Otherwise I can no longer follow the sense of the article.

Thank you in advance.
Kimball
Good idea! Now done. Thanks for pointing that out.
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Atlantic's works: ECJS 12 wheel clerestory dining cars

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sun Sep 27, 2020 1:22 pm

Woodcock29 wrote:
Sun Sep 27, 2020 6:56 am
Further to my comments above here is a photo I took of the 6 wheel Howlden BT(4) at the Vintage Carriage Trust at Ingrow on the KWVR. You can see the degree of overhang of the cornice.
Andrew
I agree that there is an overhang, but my impression from that photograph and others tends to be that the cornice alone stands proud of the more or less matching levels of the skin of the down-turned edge of the roof and the beading on the carriage side.
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Re: Atlantic's works: ECJS 12 wheel clerestory dining cars

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sat Oct 03, 2020 7:58 pm

Cornices are now lowered on all of my D & S low-roofed Howlden vehicles, awith the paintwork touched up and blended in as best I could without taking on an enormous re-painting job. The roofs now have more visible depth and the side heights are reduced, giving better compatibility with the appearances of the newly completed Bill Bedford 3D prints, although the differences between the visible depths of solebar and the thicknesses of stepboards remain. I've taken some pictures today which lack sharpness and proper colour because of the very poor daylight beneath thick rain cloud, also because I wasn't in a mood to fetch my halogen floodlights and try to set them up "just so". Anyway, here's how the two versions of the ordinary third now compare:
DSCN0114 3rds BB vs DS lnerf.jpg
Here's the whole selection set up with the new BB vehicles nearest the camera and then the D&S BCL before the D&S six wheelers, thus dodging the juxtaposition of underframes that should match yet do not match. We'll have to imagine that this is a two portion train that splits somewhere en route:
DSCN0111 MousaBB & DS comb lnerf.jpg
In a "stand off" view, with enough vehicles in the train, a much more mixed up arrangement still looks reasonable. What other loco could I possibly have posed at the front?
DSCN0123 BB DS & Stirling lnerf.jpg
I decided to try to take some pictures of my enlarged set of Howlden-style clerestories too. Those certainly would not fit on the 4ft long section of board on which, two and a half years ago, I had pinned some Peco BH points and SMP track as a temporary "new layout" test piece (and have still got no further). I had to move into the loft and try to find a section of my neglected and rarely used layout up there on which I could set up some sort of picture. It isn't easy because the relatively narrow baseboards around the loft edges don't really offer the opportunity to stand back with the camera and photograph a train "in the landscape" from an angle that mostly shows the side of the train - unless you want to fill most of the image with things that are NOT part of the layout! I've therefore finished up with a rather more "head on" view than I would have liked, and even after adjusting the colour to tone down the green cast that was created by the fluorescent tube lighting it isn't ideal, but until I can set up a picture on a more spacious layout this is the best I can do.
DSCN0133altd lnerf.jpg
DSCN0133 coaches only lnerf.jpg
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Re: Atlantic's works: ECJS 12 wheel clerestory dining cars

Post by mick b » Sat Oct 03, 2020 9:19 pm

Nice work, which version is actually correct re the Solebars ?.

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Re: Atlantic's works: ECJS 12 wheel clerestory dining cars

Post by manna » Sat Oct 03, 2020 10:02 pm

G'Day Gents

Lovely looking coaches, layouts not bad looking as well (we don't see it very often) and doesn't 4744 get around ??

manna
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Atlantic 3279
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Re: Atlantic's works: ECJS 12 wheel clerestory dining cars

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:28 am

The proper appearance of the solebars and upper stepboards may be as per the image here:
https://www.vintagecarriagestrust.org/gnr589.htm

Perhaps the D & S version, or the way I made them, over-empahasizes the depth of the solebar and makes the stepboard look under-noursihed, but probably the 3D printed version is worse and takes things too far the other way? What do others think?

4744, one of the earlier Hornby re-incarnations of the Mainline / Dapol legacy item, is certainly capable of grinding its way around the layout if allowed to do so. The open frame motor (insufficiently braced?) on a plastic mount inside a sound-box strikes again! The green Mainline version I originally had could grind even more loudly until I traced the worst of the noise back to loosely joined motor frame plates. I was then able to insert a packing piece to stop much of the vibration.
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Re: Atlantic's works: ECJS 12 wheel clerestory dining cars

Post by MikeTrice » Sun Oct 04, 2020 11:14 am

Does this help? Not shown on the drawing is the solebar height which is 11".
GNR Coach Profile.JPG

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Re: Atlantic's works: ECJS 12 wheel clerestory dining cars

Post by Atlantic 3279 » Sun Oct 04, 2020 2:25 pm

Very handy Mike, thank you. That seems to confirm what I thought I could see from photographs, namely a narrow strip of solebar also showing below the upper stepboard.
If I remember rightly, and that is by no means certain, the D&S 6 wheelers probably had fold-up, half-etched, long tabs with raised bolt-head detail on the inner edge of the upper stepboard strips, those long tabs requiring to be soldered to the solebar faces, probably over another set of even longer tabs that carry the lower stepboards. I can't remember whether there was any instruction or any scope for folding things in such a way that the upper stepboard would be made to sit any higher up. At the time of building them I was simply glad to have some kits to build that appeared to give almost all of the correct features, so I just "built the kit", making single right-angle folds in the tabs at the inner edge of the stepboard, and aligning the end of each tab with the top edge of the solebar, probably being quite ignorant of the exact height at which the stepboards ought to be.
The arrangement incorporated in the D&S bogie vehicle, the BCL, appears to be more accurate, the stepboard evidently being a separate piece that I had to add to the solebar, inserting short tabs on the stepboard into slots just above the lower edge of the solebar.
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Re: Atlantic's works: ECJS 12 wheel clerestory dining cars

Post by Chas Levin » Sun Oct 04, 2020 10:04 pm

Atlantic 3279 wrote:
Sat Sep 26, 2020 7:01 pm
... I must be mad to bother with it all for such a small eventual alteration to appearance.....
Ha - no, not at all IMHO: I find that once I've noticed something wrong that I know I can put right, it will not stop bothering me until I sort it out. Sometimes I'll try and ignore it for a few days, tell myself I'll be able to live with it... but I always know when I'm kidding myself!
Mind you, other times, I'll say 'nah - that'll fade from sight in time' and it does, and I realise weeks or months later that I can barely remember what I was so bothered about :roll: .
Well done for height alterations, nice job :) .
Chas

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